tanto for comment

Jason Anstey · 4th September 2007, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Very nice tanto, not a kamikaze dirk. Much earlier than WW II. Handforged
and folded blade. Nice monkey theme fuchi/kashira and menuki. A very
nice same'-nuri saya (sheath covered with polished rayskin). If you can
remove the bamboo peg (they are tapered, so only come out one way),
the entire handle will slide off the tang. If there is any writing (Kanji)
on the tang, please post picture. DO NOT CLEAN THE TANG or Blade.
I suspect this is at least mid Edo period, but that is a guess without
seeing the tang.

Rich

The Japanese Sword Index
http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm

Boy am I glad that I covered myself by saying that It might be much better than a kamakaze blade?

Jonng, can you also take a pic of the other side of the saya (scabbard) so we can see if there is a slot for a kozuka (utility knife) as the tsuba is shaped to fit around such a handle.

cheers

jason

jonng · 4th September 2007, 10:57 AM

Thank you guys for your help. Managed to knock out the wooden peg. Nothing but rust on the tang. Pics attached.

jonathan

Ruud B · 4th September 2007, 11:29 AM

Could you please make a picture of the tang? so we can see the shape.
all detail is important to find out more.

Rich · 4th September 2007, 11:38 AM

Still need a clear pic of tang. The type and color of the rust is important
in dating the tanto even tho it is not signed.

The tsuba is not original to the piece as it is cut out for kozuka and kogai
but the saya has no slots for them. Not unusual. A lot of tsuba switching
went on even back in Edo times.

Rich

The Japanese Sword Index
http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm

Jason Anstey · 4th September 2007, 11:52 AM

Hi Jonathan

Sometimes a non-signed tang may not be such a bad thing as many tanto were not signed, however I will stand to be corrected as you are very lucky to have Dr Rich making comments on your piece.

Often a signature (mei) is added later to add value (gimme = fake signature)

My thoughts were that is it a composite piece but again this is not unusual or reason for concern,

I am also interested in the shape of the tang, is there only one hole?

In addition can you take a photo of the pommel (kashira) so we can see if it matches. To me it looks like buffalo horn but I might be mistaken.

A full matching set of the Fuchi gashira and Menuki (handle ornaments) in this monkey theme is certainly desirable (woops sounds like the bloody antique road show!! )

I have a feeliing that the tsuka (handle has been rewrapped) due to the unevenness of the seam.

Can you aslo take a shot of the kojiri (sp?) (the fitting at the end of the scabbard)

look forward to discovering more

Thanks for sharing

Jason

jonng · 4th September 2007, 02:39 PM

Hole in tang looked to have been widened.

Rich · 4th September 2007, 07:00 PM

The color of the rust (reddish brown - assuming the photo is true
color) would make me think Shinshinto Period approx 1780-1870 ballpark
date. Nice tanto, take good care of it.

BTW, Jason is likely correct in that the mounts are possibly a mixed,
remounted set. This was not uncommon during Shinshinto period.
There were two periods of major production of tanto; the Koto (pre 1600)
and the Shinshinto. Shinshinto was a sort of "revivalist" period for the
Japanese sword. Not uncommon for smiths to "reuse" older mounts with
new blades they made. IMHO it doesn't detract from the tanto, just part
of its history.

Rich

jonng · 5th September 2007, 05:02 AM

Thank you guys for your input. This was supposedly given to a guy who worked as a local scout by the British officers when they were clearing the area (Malaysia) immediately after the Japanese surrender. Were Japanese soldiers allowed to carry non military issued tantos?
Appreciate if you can help estimate the age of the other parts as well as I know no one here in Singapore who has any knowledgeable experience with tantos.

jonathan

4th September 2007, 10:57 AM	#2
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Thank you guys for your help. Managed to knock out the wooden peg. Nothing but rust on the tang. Pics attached. jonathan Attached Images

4th September 2007, 02:39 PM	#6
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Hole in tang looked to have been widened. Attached Images

4th September 2007, 07:00 PM	#7
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	The color of the rust (reddish brown - assuming the photo is true color) would make me think Shinshinto Period approx 1780-1870 ballpark date. Nice tanto, take good care of it. BTW, Jason is likely correct in that the mounts are possibly a mixed, remounted set. This was not uncommon during Shinshinto period. There were two periods of major production of tanto; the Koto (pre 1600) and the Shinshinto. Shinshinto was a sort of "revivalist" period for the Japanese sword. Not uncommon for smiths to "reuse" older mounts with new blades they made. IMHO it doesn't detract from the tanto, just part of its history. Rich Last edited by Rich; 4th September 2007 at 10:03 PM.

4th September 2007, 11:29 AM	#3
Ruud B Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3	Could you please make a picture of the tang? so we can see the shape. all detail is important to find out more.

4th September 2007, 11:38 AM	#4
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Still need a clear pic of tang. The type and color of the rust is important in dating the tanto even tho it is not signed. The tsuba is not original to the piece as it is cut out for kozuka and kogai but the saya has no slots for them. Not unusual. A lot of tsuba switching went on even back in Edo times. Rich The Japanese Sword Index http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm

4th September 2007, 11:52 AM	#5
Jason Anstey Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 102	Hi Jonathan Sometimes a non-signed tang may not be such a bad thing as many tanto were not signed, however I will stand to be corrected as you are very lucky to have Dr Rich making comments on your piece. Often a signature (mei) is added later to add value (gimme = fake signature) My thoughts were that is it a composite piece but again this is not unusual or reason for concern, I am also interested in the shape of the tang, is there only one hole? In addition can you take a photo of the pommel (kashira) so we can see if it matches. To me it looks like buffalo horn but I might be mistaken. A full matching set of the Fuchi gashira and Menuki (handle ornaments) in this monkey theme is certainly desirable (woops sounds like the bloody antique road show!! ) I have a feeliing that the tsuka (handle has been rewrapped) due to the unevenness of the seam. Can you aslo take a shot of the kojiri (sp?) (the fitting at the end of the scabbard) look forward to discovering more Thanks for sharing Jason

5th September 2007, 05:02 AM	#8
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Thank you guys for your input. This was supposedly given to a guy who worked as a local scout by the British officers when they were clearing the area (Malaysia) immediately after the Japanese surrender. Were Japanese soldiers allowed to carry non military issued tantos? Appreciate if you can help estimate the age of the other parts as well as I know no one here in Singapore who has any knowledgeable experience with tantos. jonathan