Dramatic pattern weld on Turkish barrel

rand · 12th August 2007, 08:42 PM

This Ottoman barrel has a beautiful pattern weld of a complex pattern. India, Turkey, Russia and many more countries all had some great artisens making complex pattern welded weapons. The craftsmanship simple amazes my tiny mind.....

More pics at: http://turkishmiquelet.blogspot.com/

rand

katana · 12th August 2007, 10:47 PM

BEAUTIFUL

ward · 12th August 2007, 11:18 PM

Pattern welded barrels are interesting here is a few more patterns. One is on a square barrel

Jim McDougall · 12th August 2007, 11:49 PM

Thank you posting this beautiful barrel Rand!
The square barrel seems really unusual, is this form indicative of a certain period or weapon form or favored by any particular group? Is there any significance as far as the reason for the square shape?
As you can see I'm ballistically tone deaf

All the best,
Jim

ward · 13th August 2007, 12:24 AM

wealthy people always wanted something unusuall. This particular one is indian early 19th century. I have another one that I have not definatly figured out origin of. I have even seen a square barrell that fired square bullets. These are the only 3 I have ever seen

Jim McDougall · 13th August 2007, 12:40 AM

Thanks Ward! Now a square gun firing a square bullet? Thats really unusual...love to see CSI on a case with that one!!

Best regards,
Jim

rand · 13th August 2007, 12:58 AM

Ward,

The square barrel mughal rifle form the Figiel sale purchased by Bob Hale never left the USA, mostly because of ivory related export problems. Square barreled gun are indeed very scare, and that also has a square bore, thats a rare puppy. Have never seen an Islamic one like that.

There are examples of early European guns that have heart, diamond and club, and spade shaped bores also in a slow twist, just amazing to think about. Reason for shape of bore on those was listed as talismanic.

Great examples of barrels Ward, thanks for posting those. Believe you are right on the mark about people of wealth wanting something different.

rand

ward · 13th August 2007, 01:14 AM

I have a few pieces from Figiel. I will post a few pics of the full rifles when I get a chance

tom hyle · 13th August 2007, 03:39 PM

i'M unsure, but the square one appears to maybe be a faked pattern.

rand · 13th August 2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

i'M unsure, but the square one appears to maybe be a faked pattern.

Hi Tom,

Have to respectfully disagree with you Tom, the etched pattern on the square barrel looks very good. There are also a few similar varients of that pattern, one being from a firearm identified as being from Tibet where the etched pattern weld hints of being a stylized cloud in appearance.

Josh,
Could you post you pic of the Tibetan rifle here?

One thing I would like to hear opinions on is age. Have yet to see a clear chronolgy of miquelet and earlier Islamic firearms. We have distinction for different sttyles of miquelet locks by region. Most miquelets rifle are identified as simply 18th century or circa 1800. The matchlock Turkish musket is even more mysterious, with little information on bore.

rand

ward · 13th August 2007, 07:08 PM

no It is not a acid etched pattern. just a well made pattern weld

rand · 13th August 2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

no It is not a acid etched pattern. just a well made pattern weld

Hi Ward,

Are you saying the pattern welded barrel design is brought out by polishing only?

My understanding is the barrels were polished and then etched in an acidic soultion to bring out the pattern clearly.

In no way am I inferring this barrel to be a type of "false damacus", its a rare and amazing example of a Turkish firearm.

Ward,
Can you show photo's of the locks? Am assuming they are mounted with a type of miquelet lock.

rand

ward · 13th August 2007, 07:32 PM

you are corect I was saying the pattern was not carved in wax and then acid etched as in false damacene . I will get some pics up soon

Richard Furrer · 14th August 2007, 01:55 AM

Rand,
That barrel is worth reproducing. Another smith is coming to my shop this winter and we were planning on making some barrels. I would enjoy as many pictures as you can provide...especially of the breech and the end of the barrel.
What it looks like you have there is double row of twisted which has been ground to about 30% its thickness to get that star pattern to show well. The straight laminate is along side and it appears from what I can see in the reverse twist that there are eight sections (like and orange) -- four of the double twist and four of the straight. It is not simple to make the orange sections, but to do a reverse twist on the barrel is something difficult indeed..prone to welding shear.

Ward,
That last picture is a nice accordion folded jelly roll...not a simple thing to do.

Battara · 14th August 2007, 02:15 AM

Would you folks please also share full pictures of these wonderful puppies!

rand · 14th August 2007, 06:19 AM

More Turkish Miquelet Pics...

rand · 14th August 2007, 06:21 AM

More Miquelet Pics

rand · 14th August 2007, 06:32 AM

hi Ric,

The image size is larger on my blog so the enlargement is a bit clearer, hope it helps... Hope to get a good digital camera soon to take large file size images coupled with a quality lens. Being able to share very clear images that you can study in detail would made out hobby/passion that much better.

http://turkishmiquelet.blogspot.com/

rand

Flavio · 14th August 2007, 11:01 AM

Congratulations Rand, this is a true piece of art!!!

Pukka Bundook · 14th August 2007, 03:26 PM

Lovely barrel, Rand.

Lovely gun altogether! Thank you for sharing the pictures with us.
How long is the barrel?

Richard.

rand · 14th August 2007, 07:32 PM

Barrel is about 34" from tip to rear of sight... Any opinions as to age of this firearm?

rand

Battara · 15th August 2007, 02:08 AM

Many many thanks Rand. 18thc? That is why I love Ottoman stuff - so much artwork and craftsmanship.

12th August 2007, 08:42 PM	#1
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Dramatic pattern weld on Turkish barrel This Ottoman barrel has a beautiful pattern weld of a complex pattern. India, Turkey, Russia and many more countries all had some great artisens making complex pattern welded weapons. The craftsmanship simple amazes my tiny mind..... More pics at: http://turkishmiquelet.blogspot.com/ rand Attached Images Last edited by rand; 12th August 2007 at 09:38 PM. Reason: add photo

12th August 2007, 11:18 PM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Pattern welded barrels are interesting here is a few more patterns. One is on a square barrel Attached Images

13th August 2007, 12:58 AM	#7
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Patteern Weld Barrel Ward, The square barrel mughal rifle form the Figiel sale purchased by Bob Hale never left the USA, mostly because of ivory related export problems. Square barreled gun are indeed very scare, and that also has a square bore, thats a rare puppy. Have never seen an Islamic one like that. There are examples of early European guns that have heart, diamond and club, and spade shaped bores also in a slow twist, just amazing to think about. Reason for shape of bore on those was listed as talismanic. Great examples of barrels Ward, thanks for posting those. Believe you are right on the mark about people of wealth wanting something different. rand

14th August 2007, 06:19 AM	#16
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Turkish Miquelet Pics More Turkish Miquelet Pics... Attached Images

14th August 2007, 06:21 AM	#17
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	More Miquelet pics More Miquelet Pics Attached Images

12th August 2007, 10:47 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	BEAUTIFUL

12th August 2007, 11:49 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Thank you posting this beautiful barrel Rand! The square barrel seems really unusual, is this form indicative of a certain period or weapon form or favored by any particular group? Is there any significance as far as the reason for the square shape? As you can see I'm ballistically tone deaf All the best, Jim

13th August 2007, 12:24 AM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	wealthy people always wanted something unusuall. This particular one is indian early 19th century. I have another one that I have not definatly figured out origin of. I have even seen a square barrell that fired square bullets. These are the only 3 I have ever seen

13th August 2007, 12:40 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Thanks Ward! Now a square gun firing a square bullet? Thats really unusual...love to see CSI on a case with that one!! Best regards, Jim

13th August 2007, 01:14 AM	#8
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I have a few pieces from Figiel. I will post a few pics of the full rifles when I get a chance

13th August 2007, 03:39 PM	#9
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	i'M unsure, but the square one appears to maybe be a faked pattern.

13th August 2007, 07:08 PM	#11
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	no It is not a acid etched pattern. just a well made pattern weld

13th August 2007, 07:32 PM	#13
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	you are corect I was saying the pattern was not carved in wax and then acid etched as in false damacene . I will get some pics up soon

14th August 2007, 01:55 AM	#14
Richard Furrer Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 163	Rand, That barrel is worth reproducing. Another smith is coming to my shop this winter and we were planning on making some barrels. I would enjoy as many pictures as you can provide...especially of the breech and the end of the barrel. What it looks like you have there is double row of twisted which has been ground to about 30% its thickness to get that star pattern to show well. The straight laminate is along side and it appears from what I can see in the reverse twist that there are eight sections (like and orange) -- four of the double twist and four of the straight. It is not simple to make the orange sections, but to do a reverse twist on the barrel is something difficult indeed..prone to welding shear. Ward, That last picture is a nice accordion folded jelly roll...not a simple thing to do.

14th August 2007, 02:15 AM	#15
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Would you folks please also share full pictures of these wonderful puppies!

14th August 2007, 06:32 AM	#18
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Larger Files on Blog hi Ric, The image size is larger on my blog so the enlargement is a bit clearer, hope it helps... Hope to get a good digital camera soon to take large file size images coupled with a quality lens. Being able to share very clear images that you can study in detail would made out hobby/passion that much better. http://turkishmiquelet.blogspot.com/ rand

14th August 2007, 11:01 AM	#19
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Congratulations Rand, this is a true piece of art!!!

14th August 2007, 03:26 PM	#20
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Lovely barrel, Rand. Lovely gun altogether! Thank you for sharing the pictures with us. How long is the barrel? Richard.

14th August 2007, 07:32 PM	#21
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Barrel Barrel is about 34" from tip to rear of sight... Any opinions as to age of this firearm? rand

15th August 2007, 02:08 AM	#22
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Many many thanks Rand. 18thc? That is why I love Ottoman stuff - so much artwork and craftsmanship.