Unusual Tibetan sword

josh stout · 13th July 2007, 07:38 PM

I just got this because I had never seen fittings quite like them. When it arrived it was even stranger than I had thought. The brass work is a bit crude and relatively recent, perhaps early 20th C. The scabbard, instead of having leather between the brass is a sort of corduroy velvet that reminds me of Indian scabbards with cloth coverings. The hilt fittings are clearly Tibetan, but with a style that is strongly Chinese influenced. I am not sure which region of Tibet it is from, but it was collected from the same Tibetan plateau region of Western China that other pieces I have posted came from. The grip is black buffalo horn.

The oddest part is I can see no obvious pattern welding, but there is a series of X marks along the whole blade. If you look closely you can see them in a few photos. The x's look like they were etched as a decoration.

I would appreciate any information people may have.
Josh

http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...rrent=01-2.jpg

http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...rrent=04-1.jpg

http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...current=10.jpg

http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...current=06.jpg

ariel · 13th July 2007, 10:20 PM

I do not know why, but I really like Tibetan swords and this one is very pretty.
The book " The warriors of the Himalai" states that the dating of these swords is awfully difficult, and some examples there are labeled something like "XV-XIX century". The presence of laminations is viewed as the only tentatively suggestive sign of a pre-20th vs. 20th century.
No matter what, it is a keeper! Congratulations!

Battara · 13th July 2007, 10:43 PM

I don't know about pattern welding....most of these have straight lines of lamination with a hairpin turn at the tip. I see some possible signs of such lamination, but etching will tell for sure. I do think late 19thc-early 20thc due to the mounts.

josh stout · 16th July 2007, 04:10 PM

I would love to etch it to see if there is a pattern or differential hardening, but I am afraid of loosing the x's that are etched in. I have never seen anything like them before.
Josh

G. McCormack · 16th July 2007, 06:58 PM

Josh the only explanation I can come up with is that at some point somebody wrapped some cord around the blade in a criss-crossed pattern, and when this got wet it caused a series of localized pits to form in an "x" pattern. Maybe?

Or perhaps and adhesive used in making the newer scabbard leached through and oxidized the blade?

josh stout · 18th July 2007, 06:53 PM

Those are good speculations, but somehow the x's look intentional. Look at the first picture showing the whole blade. You can see the x's as shadows running the entire length. With the sword in hand I can see that some have been polished out over time, and that the legs of each x end in a blunt rounded way that makes me think they were brushed on. In the pictures I provided it looks like the x’s run to the edge, which would be consistent with something tied around the blade, but it doesn’t look that way so much when examined in person.

I will look some more with your suggestions in mind when I get home.
Thanks,
Josh

13th July 2007, 07:38 PM	#1
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Unusual Tibetan sword I just got this because I had never seen fittings quite like them. When it arrived it was even stranger than I had thought. The brass work is a bit crude and relatively recent, perhaps early 20th C. The scabbard, instead of having leather between the brass is a sort of corduroy velvet that reminds me of Indian scabbards with cloth coverings. The hilt fittings are clearly Tibetan, but with a style that is strongly Chinese influenced. I am not sure which region of Tibet it is from, but it was collected from the same Tibetan plateau region of Western China that other pieces I have posted came from. The grip is black buffalo horn. The oddest part is I can see no obvious pattern welding, but there is a series of X marks along the whole blade. If you look closely you can see them in a few photos. The x's look like they were etched as a decoration. I would appreciate any information people may have. Josh http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...rrent=01-2.jpg http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...rrent=04-1.jpg http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...current=10.jpg http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...current=06.jpg

13th July 2007, 10:20 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I do not know why, but I really like Tibetan swords and this one is very pretty. The book " The warriors of the Himalai" states that the dating of these swords is awfully difficult, and some examples there are labeled something like "XV-XIX century". The presence of laminations is viewed as the only tentatively suggestive sign of a pre-20th vs. 20th century. No matter what, it is a keeper! Congratulations!

13th July 2007, 10:43 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I don't know about pattern welding....most of these have straight lines of lamination with a hairpin turn at the tip. I see some possible signs of such lamination, but etching will tell for sure. I do think late 19thc-early 20thc due to the mounts.

16th July 2007, 04:10 PM	#4
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I would love to etch it to see if there is a pattern or differential hardening, but I am afraid of loosing the x's that are etched in. I have never seen anything like them before. Josh

16th July 2007, 06:58 PM	#5
G. McCormack Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 131	Josh the only explanation I can come up with is that at some point somebody wrapped some cord around the blade in a criss-crossed pattern, and when this got wet it caused a series of localized pits to form in an "x" pattern. Maybe? Or perhaps and adhesive used in making the newer scabbard leached through and oxidized the blade?

18th July 2007, 06:53 PM	#6
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Those are good speculations, but somehow the x's look intentional. Look at the first picture showing the whole blade. You can see the x's as shadows running the entire length. With the sword in hand I can see that some have been polished out over time, and that the legs of each x end in a blunt rounded way that makes me think they were brushed on. In the pictures I provided it looks like the x’s run to the edge, which would be consistent with something tied around the blade, but it doesn’t look that way so much when examined in person. I will look some more with your suggestions in mind when I get home. Thanks, Josh