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#1 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 452
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This dagger is from year 1714 (dated Islamic calendar 1127). Most samples are Turcoman ( eastern Turkey, Azerbaijan and northern Iran).This one is over the average with its decoration quality, condition and age.I acquired it from the same auction with the swords i tell about, again for price of two silver scabbarded normal kindjals ( I think kindjal prices are everywhere or on internet around same levels, like a currency, so it is a way to describe another weapon's price
![]() ![]() http://www.pbase.com/erlik30/inbox regards Last edited by erlikhan; 15th February 2005 at 03:57 PM. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 1,254
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Any commentary on why the corals are traditionally shaped like seeds?
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#3 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Poland, Warsaw
Posts: 33
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Erlikhan,
nice piece, indeed. The inscriptions is not to easy to read as a whole. It seems that the first picture (#...419) shows its final part. The beginning (#...420) is without any doubt, "Muhammad rasul Allah". I'd love to see more details of the middle section of the first part to say anything more. The end of this part can be "'ala Allah" (or Ali ... Allah, but this less probable). The other side completely enigmatic at the first sight (with exception of the date), but I will think about it. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
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That's what I call OSTENTATIOUS! Some of the Ottoman weapons were so artistically overdone that one would just hesitate to take them out of the house and use them as weapons. But in their own barbaric and kitschy way they are remarkably attractive, and this one is a splendid example of the prevailing taste of the Empire.
Just a question: it seems to me that the koftgari is remarkably intact and even actively peeling (first close-up of the blade, upper edge). I am afraid to ask, but is it possible that the koftgari is new? Is it just my impression or the use of corals was concentrated in 3 places: Balkans, Egypt (Mameluks) and Northern Turkey? |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 452
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Why like seed? Interesting question. i will ask about it to somebody.
Balkans right, Egypt, i dont know, but instead of northern Turkey, eastern would be correct, and most intensive among all. When i examine koftgari, i can see some erroded parts, which have got thinner remains or gone completely(example. pic.419 upper side) In fact not only koftgari, but everything is intact and very good preserved. Not a single pitting ,rust, nick on the blade.Never used. i bet i am the most humble owner of it since its birth ![]() Kamil, do you mean you can't see the inscriptions on pic. 420 and need closer view? Last edited by erlikhan; 16th February 2005 at 01:14 AM. |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 1,254
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Yep, even the flat bladed letter opener ones I've seen have koftgari at the blade base.
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#7 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
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Ottoman weapons were, as a rule, much "richer" than Persian and the latter frowned upon such "effeminacy". Prophet Mohammed was also not very fond of richly decorated swords, especially with golden or silver handles.
Elgood ("The arms and armour of Arabia", p. 21) recalls Stocklein's rendition of an incident when in 1515, Shah Ismail sent Sultan Selim I of Turkey(Selim the Grim) a heavily jewelled sword as an insulting present, hinting at unwarlike and effeminate Ottoman customs. Elgood suggests a different interpretation of the insult: giving a richly decorated sword was Ismail's way to say that he regarded Selim as his vassal. Wrong message!!! Ismail was defeated by Selim who proceeded to conquer the entire Anatolia, Kurdistan and Egypt. Richly decorated Ottoman weapons were nothing to laugh about especially when wielded by the Turks.... As to Egypt, Astvatsaturyan's book shows a gorgeous Mameluke Kilij wit a profusion of coral decorations and I distinctly remember Artzi (Oriental_arms) offering a similar one. Ottoman influence, no doubt. Glad to know that I was mistaken and the koftgari is old and genuine. Congratulations! Marvelous dagger! Last edited by ariel; 16th February 2005 at 01:53 AM. |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 452
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Thanks for the pleasant words about the dagger.
http://www.pbase.com/erlik30/inbox . i uploaded the pic. of my old coralled dagger . its corals are lowest quality, not artistically processed, just cut from necklace and placed, blue ones just beads instead of turquouise,scabbard white metal but still silver koftgari on both sides. Shah Ismail doesn't send only jewelled sword, but also women dresses to insult, while Ottoman army was on the way to east. So the meaning must be a bit ahead the borders of a political superiority declaration. Selim replies him, by sending solid golden hashish accesories, meaning advisors of Ismail should be all drug addicts, which could be the only explanation for why they drive Ismail act so wrong to prepare his own end. regards |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
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Gosh, these two guys were so subtle!
My wife gave me a book " Home repairs for dummies " for my birthday. Do you think she was trying to tell me something? |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Clearwater, Florida
Posts: 371
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You made me spit iced tea all over my keyboard again! LOL!
A friend sent me a switchblade knife as a present today with a safety on it....I KNOW he was trying to tell me something!**grin** |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 452
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There were missing turquoises and corals (around 25), with empty or dark red wax filled holes. I made them completed by a master, and the scabbard's very heavy patina cleared,revealing the gilding, which is thick and complete to my luck. Attached pictures are the situation 2 months after the restoration. Patina has slightly restarted in especially crowded parts.
regards |
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