Balinese kris from Polish Museum

wolviex · 14th February 2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

Perhaps Wolviex could post another picture or two showing the fit of the blade in the scabbard before we go assuming the piece is a re-fit.

Yes, yes, yes. I'll do it. I wanted to do it earlier, but just forgot. There is something what should explain something, I hope. I'll try to do it tomorrow.

John · 15th February 2005, 12:53 AM

Was looking into a few more references and it does appear examples of this type have been overwhelmingly refered to as "Bonaspati" eg by Tammens, Jensen (Den Indonesiske Kris), and Stone. Duuren mentions Banaspati, a cannibal lord of the forest... Nevertheless similar masks/heads have been referred to as Boma or Kala elsewhere. Do a google on "Boma" and you'll see what I mean...

nechesh · 15th February 2005, 01:27 AM

Dave, you are, of course, right on many fronts. One thing i would like to see if Wolviex deems it a possibility, is the pendok put the proper way on the sheath. It just adds to the mismatched look of things the way it is. It would do no damage to the piece an would allow us to see if this pendok was really made for this sheath.
Now Dave, you are right, this keris could have some mystical attributes that made it's owner value it highly and indeed, he may have decided to honor it with this elaborately beautiful dress. The true value of any keris can ONLY be assessed by it's owner, plain and simple. That being said, i was reacting to the general gush of comments that said "beautiful keris". Not being the owner, knowing the history, etc. i can only respond to it from what i know and can see. I can only gauge this keris against the general criteria for what makes a good keris as we here in this community have discussed many times over. This appears to me to be (sorry wolviex, cover your ears

) a keris of inferior workmanship in only a fair state of condition. In my view, not a beautiful keris. You can certainly compare the dress of the keris on pg. 72 in van Duuren's Critical Bibliography, and your point about the hulu is well noted. Wolviex's example is a fine representation of this form, no doubt and as can be seen in van Duuren, an exceptable hilt for such a dress. But please don't compare the blades here. The example in van Duuren is a truely exquisite blade.Beautiful workmanship. The same can not be said for Wolviex's example. Any reference to mystical power is purely conjecture.

Mick · 15th February 2005, 03:25 PM

The wood is Pelet which when used by affectionatos needs no extra embellishment. Even the pieces in the treasure room at the museum in Jarkarta which are topped with hilts containing rose cut diamonds the size of my thumbnail show an open pelet front face although they are backed with a gold (pendock) for want of another word. The attached is a representive sample of fine Balinese Pelet.

wolviex · 15th February 2005, 08:23 PM

Mick: your sheath is beautiful, it's made entire with Pelet wood, while this from Museum has only wrangka made of this wood.

Ok, few more precise informations.

One of the experts in museum was kind enough to check the stones on the pendok for me. He was looking, checking, microscoping, and he said this are VERY HIGH QUALITY ROCK CRYSTALS! Not diamonds, but very high quality rock crystals sounds not bad

Nechesh: I will refit the pendok if it is only possible. I won't do it alone, and I want a conservator to do it - he's got tools, experience, and he is an expert anyway. So this must wait, but if we will do it, I'll post a picture.

John: thank you for the Boma hint

. It's next name for the collection

, but this time there are many more hits at google. And google don't lies...

And here are the additional photos of the sheath. You can clearly see, that corners of the entrance to the sheath are piece on. DAHenkel, is this what you wanted me to show you?

Mick · 15th February 2005, 10:11 PM

Wolviex

I think that is just what Dave was looking for. The sheath shows that the front part of the opening was plugged and then recut for this piece. Therefore the sheath was not made for this keris. The rear portion is somewhat ambiguous.

Correct that; the rear portion also shows a plug, but the beat up area in front of it ends well before the original cutout.

DAHenkel · 15th February 2005, 10:44 PM

Precisely Mick.

Why this happened is a matter for speculation. Item of keris dress were often sold off or exchanged for various reasons. Economic distress etc. etc.

This we know.

What we don't know is why this blade was fitted to this particular sheath. There can be two possibilities.

One is that the dress was sold off to an "antique dealer" who refitted the blade for sale to a "tourist" or in this case, a museum curator it appears. Why this blade was chosen is a bit of a mystery. After all the dealer would stand to profit more by using a finer blade but perhaps he was relying or speculating on the ignorance of his clientele.

The other possibility is that this was a more "traditional" exchange where one Balinese sold the dress to another. Perhaps someone wanted to dress this particular blade in finer clothing but saw the second hand dress as a better value than commissioning a new set.

The only clues we have are the relatively careful and neat job done to re-fit the blade, which was not always done, particularly for tourist keris. And of course, the blade itself.

I would contend however that there is more than meets the eye with this blade. It is not a "bad" keris in the normal sense of the word IMO. It has clearly got some age to it and has been well cared for in the normal way. The unusual aspects of this keris include the ganja iras and the curious "pitting" effect of one type of metal on the blade paticularly around the dapur area.

You must also understand that traditionally, ganja iras was neither common nor undesirable. Real, old keris ganja iras are quite rare although certainly not impossible to find and were considered to have special magickal properites. It is not just a "cheap shortcut" way of making a blade.

You must realise of course that I am not "defending" this blade on aesthetic grounds, though to an extent it does have that certain something that nice old blades can have when they're well looked after. What I am against is the notion that just because, to our Western eye this keris is not up to the standard of the dress, that this was necessarily so for the Balinese.

15th February 2005, 12:53 AM	#2
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Topengan Was looking into a few more references and it does appear examples of this type have been overwhelmingly refered to as "Bonaspati" eg by Tammens, Jensen (Den Indonesiske Kris), and Stone. Duuren mentions Banaspati, a cannibal lord of the forest... Nevertheless similar masks/heads have been referred to as Boma or Kala elsewhere. Do a google on "Boma" and you'll see what I mean...

15th February 2005, 03:25 PM	#4
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	The wood is Pelet which when used by affectionatos needs no extra embellishment. Even the pieces in the treasure room at the museum in Jarkarta which are topped with hilts containing rose cut diamonds the size of my thumbnail show an open pelet front face although they are backed with a gold (pendock) for want of another word. The attached is a representive sample of fine Balinese Pelet. Attached Images

15th February 2005, 08:23 PM	#5
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Mick: your sheath is beautiful, it's made entire with Pelet wood, while this from Museum has only wrangka made of this wood. Ok, few more precise informations. One of the experts in museum was kind enough to check the stones on the pendok for me. He was looking, checking, microscoping, and he said this are VERY HIGH QUALITY ROCK CRYSTALS! Not diamonds, but very high quality rock crystals sounds not bad Nechesh: I will refit the pendok if it is only possible. I won't do it alone, and I want a conservator to do it - he's got tools, experience, and he is an expert anyway. So this must wait, but if we will do it, I'll post a picture. John: thank you for the Boma hint . It's next name for the collection , but this time there are many more hits at google. And google don't lies... And here are the additional photos of the sheath. You can clearly see, that corners of the entrance to the sheath are piece on. DAHenkel, is this what you wanted me to show you? Attached Images

15th February 2005, 10:11 PM	#6
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Wolviex I think that is just what Dave was looking for. The sheath shows that the front part of the opening was plugged and then recut for this piece. Therefore the sheath was not made for this keris. The rear portion is somewhat ambiguous. Correct that; the rear portion also shows a plug, but the beat up area in front of it ends well before the original cutout. Last edited by Mick; 15th February 2005 at 10:25 PM.

15th February 2005, 01:27 AM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Dave, you are, of course, right on many fronts. One thing i would like to see if Wolviex deems it a possibility, is the pendok put the proper way on the sheath. It just adds to the mismatched look of things the way it is. It would do no damage to the piece an would allow us to see if this pendok was really made for this sheath. Now Dave, you are right, this keris could have some mystical attributes that made it's owner value it highly and indeed, he may have decided to honor it with this elaborately beautiful dress. The true value of any keris can ONLY be assessed by it's owner, plain and simple. That being said, i was reacting to the general gush of comments that said "beautiful keris". Not being the owner, knowing the history, etc. i can only respond to it from what i know and can see. I can only gauge this keris against the general criteria for what makes a good keris as we here in this community have discussed many times over. This appears to me to be (sorry wolviex, cover your ears ) a keris of inferior workmanship in only a fair state of condition. In my view, not a beautiful keris. You can certainly compare the dress of the keris on pg. 72 in van Duuren's Critical Bibliography, and your point about the hulu is well noted. Wolviex's example is a fine representation of this form, no doubt and as can be seen in van Duuren, an exceptable hilt for such a dress. But please don't compare the blades here. The example in van Duuren is a truely exquisite blade.Beautiful workmanship. The same can not be said for Wolviex's example. Any reference to mystical power is purely conjecture.

15th February 2005, 10:44 PM	#7
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Precisely Mick. Why this happened is a matter for speculation. Item of keris dress were often sold off or exchanged for various reasons. Economic distress etc. etc. This we know. What we don't know is why this blade was fitted to this particular sheath. There can be two possibilities. One is that the dress was sold off to an "antique dealer" who refitted the blade for sale to a "tourist" or in this case, a museum curator it appears. Why this blade was chosen is a bit of a mystery. After all the dealer would stand to profit more by using a finer blade but perhaps he was relying or speculating on the ignorance of his clientele. The other possibility is that this was a more "traditional" exchange where one Balinese sold the dress to another. Perhaps someone wanted to dress this particular blade in finer clothing but saw the second hand dress as a better value than commissioning a new set. The only clues we have are the relatively careful and neat job done to re-fit the blade, which was not always done, particularly for tourist keris. And of course, the blade itself. I would contend however that there is more than meets the eye with this blade. It is not a "bad" keris in the normal sense of the word IMO. It has clearly got some age to it and has been well cared for in the normal way. The unusual aspects of this keris include the ganja iras and the curious "pitting" effect of one type of metal on the blade paticularly around the dapur area. You must also understand that traditionally, ganja iras was neither common nor undesirable. Real, old keris ganja iras are quite rare although certainly not impossible to find and were considered to have special magickal properites. It is not just a "cheap shortcut" way of making a blade. You must realise of course that I am not "defending" this blade on aesthetic grounds, though to an extent it does have that certain something that nice old blades can have when they're well looked after. What I am against is the notion that just because, to our Western eye this keris is not up to the standard of the dress, that this was necessarily so for the Balinese.