Old Tibetan Phurba for comment or information

[spiral]

Looks full of classical Nepali {perhaps Tamang.} shamanic symbolism to me, Havent seen one that size before though.

Almost looks like bottom half is standerd Phurba, & top half is whats unusual.

Spiral

[katana]

Thanks Spiral....good call....you certainly seem to be in the right area

I found two images of 'full sized' masks from that area....not identical to those on the 'phurba' but demonstrates similarities... On the picture below them I've indicated where it feels comfortable to hold (just feels right ..and 'rub marks' seem to confirm this) Feels more like a Phurba 'sword' or 'spear'...than dagger.
Tim I will try and post daylight pics soon, (if the rain stops ) Very intriqued about this piece...cannot seem to find a similar sized one anywhere on the web.....

[Captain D]

At first I was skeptical about this actually being a phurba at all, mostly because of the style of carving which at first glance does look African in its execution. After closer consideration of the pics and doing some research into the vast extent of the phurba cult across Central Asia, I think it may very well be a phurba after all, but one far removed from Tibet, possibly Mongolian. It does display the essential morphological features that define a phurba, namely a three-sided blade and cylindrical handle. It also seems to feature stylized renditions of traditional phurba iconography: The makara head from whose mouth the blade projects, the dorje or vajra ("diamond thunderbolt") carving of the lower handle, and the three faces of the phurba deity. The rest is decorated in the local motifs of the region where it was crafted. What needs to be understood when viewing phurba is that despite being called "ceremonial daggers", phurba have their origins among the nomadic tribes of Central Asia as tent pegs. The word "phurba" means something like "to spike, or nail", having the connotation of pinning something to the ground. They are most commonly made of iron, though hardwood examples are by no means uncommon. Their use as a shamanic ritual weapon against demons predates the arrival of Buddhism in Tibet by 1000 years or more. Whatever the case, it's a very unique and curious artifact.

[Ian]

Welcome to the EAA Forum Captain D.

I deleted your duplicate post when confirming your registration on the forum. If there was anything in your second message that is not in the first, please add it back.

Ian

[Captain D]

Thanks for the welcome Ian. I only duplicated my posting because after 3 tries it wouldn't post. The one you posted for me is the original and contains everything I wanted to say.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Captain D

Thanks for the welcome Ian. I only duplicated my posting because after 3 tries it wouldn't post. The one you posted for me is the original and contains everything I wanted to say.

Sorry Captain D. You were blocked from posting as part of the new security features we implemented to block a bunch of spammers who were hitting the site. It is necessary to be formally "signed in" by a Moderator after you submit your first post (just so we know you are legit ) Sometimes we are a little slow in getting to the new postings.

Glad we could get you up and running, if a little tardy.

ian.

[katana]

Hello...welcome..and thankyou Captain D... I appreciate your efforts...I have had great difficulty in 'tying' this Phurba to a specific tribe or people. I have been 'googling' every search keyword I could think of and have not found a similar sized or decorated example. I even searched all the 'tourist/ gift ' type sellers/outlets from Asia in case this was made for 'those that like to travel'......but nothing.
I am beginning to feel that this is, indeed, authentic (made for spiritual purposes...rather than 'decoration' and is of ethnic origin) and is something that I cannot help but 'pick up' everytime I pass it......I hope this is not an indication of the possible (evil ?? ) 'power' it may pocess

[Battara]

Welcome Capt D,

Mongolian - hmmm.....if Central Asia I would have thought Bon religion and not Tibetan....if you have any pictures of non-Buddhist Mongolian phurbas that would be great.

[Captain D]

Originally Posted by Battara

Welcome Capt D,

Mongolian - hmmm.....if Central Asia I would have thought Bon religion and not Tibetan....if you have any pictures of non-Buddhist Mongolian phurbas that would be great.

Actually, Bon is the indigenous, pre-Buddhist religion of Tibet. Bon practitioners regard it as being a form of Buddhism that pre-dates Gautama Buddha by tens of millenia. It contains many elements of Central Asian shamanism, one of which is the ritual use of the phurba. I have never seen a Mongolian phurba, neither in person nor in a pic. My conjecture about the subject of this thread being Mongolian is just that: conjecture. However, given the reported extent of the phurba cult across Central Asia, from Delhi, India to Japan, it could be from many places. The key, I think, is in identifying the typology of the non-iconographic carving which covers this unusual piece. Ideally, identifying the wood would be helpful as well. The Mongols adopted Tibetan Buddhism as an official religion many centuries ago. Unfortunately, the Mongolians suffered the same cultural deprivation at the hands of the Chinese that the Tibetans did, and much of the cultural material related to their religious beliefs was destroyed, so I imagine Mongolian phurba, especially wooden ones, to be rare indeed.

[spiral]

I always though that Padmasambhava was credited with inventing the Phurba? around 750AD?

Thats what the Nepalis & Tibetans belive & teach.

Still after all these years that gets rather into belief rather than proof.

Spiral

[Captain D]

Originally Posted by spiral

I always though that Padmasambhava was credited with inventing the Phurba? around 750AD?

Thats what the Nepalis & Tibetans belive & teach.

Still after all these years that gets rather into belief rather than proof.

Spiral

Padmasmbhava is credited in Tibetan Buddhism with discovering a phurba and the written precept for its use in a triangular stone receptacle, guarded by a scorpion, in a cave on the Tibetan side of the Himalayas during his passage from India to Tibet. That being the case, the phurba had already been in use for a long time before his arrival. He is said to have read the precept, and to have then perfected the existing phurba cult by integrating it into the Buddhist teachings he had brought with him from India. Today it is mainly used by monks of the Nyingmapa sect, as well as Bonpo.