Zulu Patina question? Looks very recent.

[Bill M]

I just received this Zulu axe. The seller seems to be very knowledgeable about Zulu pieces. He sells a lot of them and has a 100% feedback.

He says

"Offered for sale from my private collection of Zulu artefacts is this magnificent antique Zulu axe (called ‘isizenze’ by the Zulus). The axe was collected from a Zulu hut in the battlefields area of Zululand, South Africa, and dates to the early 1900s.

"This stunning axe consists of a semi-circular metal blade riveted to a metal tang which is set into the long wooden haft. The wooden haft is carved from a single piece and the patina is virtually black from age. (my bold face) The haft measures about 38.5 inches long. The blade is about 6 inches in length and 3.5 inches deep. The metal blade is in good condition with surface pitting and a rusty/dark patina from the age of the piece.

"The axe was collected in the Rorke’s Drift/Isandlwana battlefields area of Zululand. It looks magnificent mounted on a wall and would certainly be a real focal point in any collection of Zulu or African artefacts and weapons.

"A genuine antique Zulu item, NOT a tourist piece!"

In hand the piece looks too new and pristine to be this old. There is absoultly no "wear patina."

I emailed him with this question and received the following:

"The axe handle is absolutely NOT new. The patina is as strong as you are likely to get - the black colouration of the wood IS the patina, developed through age and from storage in a hut, the original colour of the wood would have been significantly lighter than this. It is absolutely right. Trust me, I've handled hundreds of these items and this one came to me directly out of remote Zululand, it was not acquired from a dealer or an ebay purchase or anything like that."

Are there any knowledgeable Zulu collectors who would care to comment on this?

[Bill M]

"Offered for sale from my private collection of Zulu artefacts is this superb top-quality antique Zulu walking stick (called ‘iqhabanga’ by the Zulus). This iqhabanga in my opinion is the best I am currently offering on eBay, and the best you will have seen on sale for some time. I paid a hefty 3 figure sum for it, it is such a good quality piece.

"The stick I would guess dates to the mid 1900’s. It has been carved from a single piece of dark hardwood by a highly-skilled Zulu craftsman. This stick was found in a Zulu hut at Hlomo Hlomo, about 35km north-west of Nongoma, Zululand, South Africa.

"The stick has a small knobkerrie-style head, below which is a carved and fluted section in the Zulu ‘amasumpa’ (warts) style. The thin haft is carved perfectly straight with a smooth polished finish, and tapers to a point at the base of the stick. Top quality, lovely patina and feel to the whole piece, which is also well-balanced."

Same patina as the axe. Also pristine.

Would really appreciate knowing more about this "Zulu Patina."

I am trying to believe that he is for real. He has a good reputation, but I don't understand this black patina.

I have bought several other pieces from him that he says are lesser pieces and they do have nice brown wear patina.

[Tim Simmons]

Bill. I think I agree with your concerns. 1900 is not really Zulu wars though I do believe without searching one of Nelson Mandela's ancestors led a revolt around 1913. Compere the wood with that last stick I post. I hate to agree with you but I do feel the same.

[Lew]

Bill

Your axe seems to have the right patina but the stick strikes me as being newer the checkering would be more worn if it was that old and used constantly by the owner. Attached is an old Songye axe that was encrusted with some real nasty dirt and grime it has a similar patina to your axe but this is after I cleaned and waxed it.

Lew

[Ian]

Bill:

That stick has been turned on a lathe (probably a lathe was used for the checkering too). Did Zulus have lathes to turn wood in such precise ways?

Ian.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Bill

Your axe seems to have the right patina but the stick strikes me as being newer the checkering would be more worn if it was that old and used constantly by the owner.

Lew

How does the axe acquire the patina? Or the stick for that matter? There is little wear on the axe handle.

The stick looks very new. Do the Zulu just keep these in a cupboard while the wood turns black?

I don't understand. But I would like to

thanks for the reply Lew.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Ian

Bill:

That stick has been turned on a lathe (probably a lathe was used for the checkering too). Did Zulus have lathes to turn wood in such precise ways?

Ian.

Ian,

You're not in England are you?

I can see marks between the handle and the checkering that looks as though it was turned on a lathe.

This is a mystery to me. On one hand everything points to this being made yesterday with modern tools. However the seller seems really solid and it would be even stranger for a faker to make something so obviously new-looking. A good faker would have wonderful wear patina.

Do like the African traders and give the piece to a kid with some steel wool and a can of Johnson's paste Wax. It would look a hundred years old in a few days.

[Lew]

Bill

The axe handle has age cracks and is consistant with other older knobkerries and axe handles that I have seen. Does the axe handle have a smokey smell to it like burnt wood? As far as lathes go I have a pic of a Sudanese wood worker using a lathe circa 1900.

Lew

[The Double D]

I have to agree with the perception the walking stick is fairly new. I to see lathe marks. I also think I see glue by the knob.

He paid three figures? Lets I exchanged Rand yesterday at 7.36 per dollar. So lets say R150, that's three figures, $20.38.

The attached picture is of a milkpail my wife got. It has that dark finish also. The darkness is supossed to come from the smoke in the rondaval.

Notice the surface finish of the milk pail. It's rough and marked and not polished as these two item are.

I think the axe has been refinished. Authenticity, will have come from some one more knowledgeable.

The Walking stick is nice but has some quality that says new made. The checkering should be worn or even damaged if old.

[Bill M]

The seller has agreed to a return and refund. But I dislike doing this, espcially if they could be authentic, he insists they are.

I would still like to know more if there are any other opinions?

I met the curator of African art at the Michael C Carlos Museum here in Atlanta some time ago and will email her a link to this thread.

She was born in south Africa. Maybe she will have an answer.

If I can get an appointment, I'll take these two pieces to her.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Ian,

You're not in England are you?

No Bill. I'm in Minnesota. Originally from Australia.

Ian.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Ian

No Bill. I'm in Minnesota. Originally from Australia.

Ian.

Either way, you talk funny.

[Ian]

The Honorable Mr Winston is having a lend of me.

[spiral]

Bill, The way I look at it if in the years to come if you will still have a nagging doubt & gut reaction about it evry time you handle it, send it back, & get something you like & belive in.

But If you realy like it, & others beliefs give you more confidence in it & overcome that your gut instinct to it, then keep it, & enjoy!

I dont know whether its real or not, but I know wood is easy to make look old.

So many of these also have old English Victorian Herb chopper heads as well. That always bothers me, but that may be my ignorance?

Perhaps there was a Zulu industry in turning these into axes? Or duplicating them on there forges? or perhaps the English copied them of the Zulu axes?

Ive also always noticed in life, the most succesful & richest conmen are increadibly plausible.

Also is there realy any high reputation dealer in the world who can swear hes never passed on a dubious item? Ive seen a few intresting pieces sold over the years.

Just a few of my random thoughts. No offence intended to anyone.


Spiral

[Tim Simmons]

You could meet the seller half way. keep the axe which might be old. Return the staff which if I dare to be bold is not old in anyway. A patina of age and use would not leave radial patterns on the wood, and what is it that glistens under the ball.

[Tim Simmons]

Here are some pics of a one of my "black patina"? Zulu things, the easy one to take pics of. I know it is difficult to show this through a pic on a PC but I think there is quite a discernable difference.

[The Double D]

I forgot to upload the pictures this morning with my example of Zulu patination.

This is a 1960's maidens Milk pail.

The first taken with a flash to show surface texture. Notice the wood grain


The second availbable light to show color textures. Notice it is not uniform


There is one other characteristic that you can't see, this milk pail smells of wood smoke.

All the original wood that I have seen so far on Zulu weapons and tools is raw wood, light colored. Any dark wood has been "enhanced" for the antique market. None of the enhanced objects smell of smoke. It's a shame too as some of the objects would be very nice if left alone.

Another thing that strikes me about the axe, the rivet. I haven't seen any Zulu metal work yet, with a rivet. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just means I haven't seen it.

Ebay feed back. Positive feed back is almost meaningless. It means the goods were shipped out fast and the receiver liked them. It doesn't serve to verify authenticity. Hidden feedback is meaningful, it means buyer beware.

[spiral]

But such rivets are common on cheap Victorian herb choppers DD.

Here another one higher quality one posted by Flavio still clearly marked...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=herb


So either the Zulus used herb choppers as axes? or at some time thiers been at least one cottage industry turning these out?

Or several dodgy dealers into woodwork?

A cabinet maker can duplicate age very easy & match any orignal piece of timber as far as the eye can see.

Spiral

[katana]

Hi Bill, I am no expert.....when you first posted this thread...I viewed the pictures and my 'gut feeling' is that both items are relatively new. I have returned to them several times and the 'feeling' has not changed.
I agree that the stick looks too perfect, consistant colour, no wear marks on the raised parts of the chequered pattern, no dinks to the knob and the lathe (?) working marks on the smoother sections.
The axe, also raises concerns, of which Spiral and others have pointed out. Cracks in wood are not always the result of age, wood that is not properly seasoned will develop such cracks.
If the axe was forged in Africa, it makes no sense in using a rivet. Firstly, it is unnecesary complication, a hole would have to formed in the blade, the supporting shaft would require two coresponding holes, and a rivet forged. And secondly, the resulting 'ensemble' would be weaker compared to a similar axe head with a tang forged in 'one piece'.(which would be much easier and quicker to manufacture.) So to me the rivet suggests 'mass production'....

my 10 cents worth....

[Ferguson]

Bill, I have a walking stick very very similar to that. It was bought 2 years ago in a shop in Myrtle Beach, SC that sells African crafts. It's a very nice stick, but new. Don't know about the ax, but what kind of collector would have a piece with red rust? Send them back. You'll never be happy with them.

Steve

[spiral]

I havent handled much African stuff so cant comment from expierience of them.

But Ive handled a lot off wood & steel of many ages.

I wouldnt be happy to keep them in my collection.

Probably explains how come the sellor has such an infinate supply.

Spiral