Origin of the keris

A. G. Maisey · 18th August 2006, 05:50 AM

Yes, this is a good graphic example of the line of descent of the keris.

A number of Indian swords as illustrated in Rawson (Library of Congress Cat Card:- 69-11144) display the symmetric blade base observed in the Karnataka relief shown by Pusaka.

A 5th. Century Gupta sword, 10-13th century Pala sword, various khandas including the Harasnath, the South Indian Madrasi swords---some even display a waved blade---the Orissan khanda; all these types shown by Rawson have some feature which can be seen as keris-like.

Older Indian swords tended to be shorter than the khandas I have mentioned, but the typology is still evident in these later, longer blades.

As I noted in my "Origin" article, the keris seems to be a descendant of the leaf shaped blades of India, which Rawson considers to be a "a common Aryan heritage of the Indo-Aryan peoples".

The Panataran relief showing a monkey warrior wielding a dagger with symmetric base is often distorted in published photographs by having the part of the blade where the gandik would be , shortened, or otherwise manipulated, to make it appear more keris-like.In fact, this Panataran representation shows a blade with a very symmetric base---which of course, makes it even more Indian.

There can be no doubt that the keris as we know it developed in Jawa, however, I think that there can be equally no doubt that it developed from Indian roots.

Pusaka · 18th August 2006, 01:30 PM

Hi guys, good to be back

Personally I find the depictions strikingly similar

David · 18th August 2006, 02:41 PM

Thanks for the better pictures Pusaka. Yes, i agree that they are strikingly similar and as Alan has stated, there is a strong line of development that seems to lead to a great influence from India. Generally, though, the keris as we know it is an asymmetric weapon while these are both fairly symmetric in form (the exception would be the keris sepang which is a relatively rare form and, i think, came a bit later in the evolution of the keris form). I think that most folks here probably buy into the concept of a strong Indian influence, though i would agree with Alan that the keris as we know it in it's asymmetric form probably developed in Jawa.

Pusaka · 18th August 2006, 02:44 PM

It has what looks to be a primitive Gajah too!

David · 18th August 2006, 03:57 PM

I see what you are looking at, but at this level of enlargement i would find it really hard to be definitive about that. I think we might all need to go on a field trip.

18th August 2006, 01:30 PM	#2
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Hi guys, good to be back Personally I find the depictions strikingly similar Attached Images

18th August 2006, 02:44 PM	#4
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	It has what looks to be a primitive Gajah too! Attached Images

18th August 2006, 05:50 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Yes, this is a good graphic example of the line of descent of the keris. A number of Indian swords as illustrated in Rawson (Library of Congress Cat Card:- 69-11144) display the symmetric blade base observed in the Karnataka relief shown by Pusaka. A 5th. Century Gupta sword, 10-13th century Pala sword, various khandas including the Harasnath, the South Indian Madrasi swords---some even display a waved blade---the Orissan khanda; all these types shown by Rawson have some feature which can be seen as keris-like. Older Indian swords tended to be shorter than the khandas I have mentioned, but the typology is still evident in these later, longer blades. As I noted in my "Origin" article, the keris seems to be a descendant of the leaf shaped blades of India, which Rawson considers to be a "a common Aryan heritage of the Indo-Aryan peoples". The Panataran relief showing a monkey warrior wielding a dagger with symmetric base is often distorted in published photographs by having the part of the blade where the gandik would be , shortened, or otherwise manipulated, to make it appear more keris-like.In fact, this Panataran representation shows a blade with a very symmetric base---which of course, makes it even more Indian. There can be no doubt that the keris as we know it developed in Jawa, however, I think that there can be equally no doubt that it developed from Indian roots.

18th August 2006, 02:41 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Thanks for the better pictures Pusaka. Yes, i agree that they are strikingly similar and as Alan has stated, there is a strong line of development that seems to lead to a great influence from India. Generally, though, the keris as we know it is an asymmetric weapon while these are both fairly symmetric in form (the exception would be the keris sepang which is a relatively rare form and, i think, came a bit later in the evolution of the keris form). I think that most folks here probably buy into the concept of a strong Indian influence, though i would agree with Alan that the keris as we know it in it's asymmetric form probably developed in Jawa.

18th August 2006, 03:57 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	I see what you are looking at, but at this level of enlargement i would find it really hard to be definitive about that. I think we might all need to go on a field trip.