Where's the Wootz?

Interested Party · Yesterday, 08:40 PM

There used to be some interesting videos of Al Pendray and John Verhoeven using ore from Damascus area and crucible technique assisted by local smiths to recreate crucible steel.

Has anyone mentioned the local variances in ores effecting the final outcome of the crystalline structure?

urbanspaceman · Yesterday, 09:37 PM

I remember seeing a lengthy documentary quite a few years back about Al and John making wootz: it was mesmerising; the more so because I had not yet begun my Shotley Bridge odyssey and knew nothing about arms, armour or metallurgy.
I have not yet found it on Youtube although there is a superb video featuring Al that is easy to come across if you type wootz and his name into the search engine; this will bring up an endless number of additional videos on wootz (and blade metallurgy)... as I said, take a week off work.
Equally, there are many of those videos regarding steel composition - and iron too.
Despite sending smiths over to the Middle East during the Christian Crusades, to steal the secrets, the Solingen blacksmiths have never used the Crucible method, which makes me suspicious about it ever being used in the Middle East, which is what prompted my question.
The local ore that was used in Remscheid is significantly responsible for the blade quality output from Solingen: breakdowns of ore content by location have been published extensively. The other important factor responsible for the high grade of blade output from Solingen, and Hounslow, Shotley Bridge, Klingenthal et al. is the specialisation system, where separate guilds (usually family based) performed only one process/stage in blade production; and considering it had been going-on for 2,000 years, they had definitely mastered the arts. Forging was, of course, the "Black Art"... worldwide actually, as I'm sure everyone is aware.

urbanspaceman · Yesterday, 09:50 PM

There has been much consideration over the years/decades regarding the ending of fine blade production in Damascus, with the predominant reasons considered being the loss of the blacksmith's secrets as families died out, but also the depleting of the necessary local ores.
I would be interested to learn what research has been done about this.

Yesterday, 09:37 PM	#2
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 541	Al and John etc I remember seeing a lengthy documentary quite a few years back about Al and John making wootz: it was mesmerising; the more so because I had not yet begun my Shotley Bridge odyssey and knew nothing about arms, armour or metallurgy. I have not yet found it on Youtube although there is a superb video featuring Al that is easy to come across if you type wootz and his name into the search engine; this will bring up an endless number of additional videos on wootz (and blade metallurgy)... as I said, take a week off work. Equally, there are many of those videos regarding steel composition - and iron too. Despite sending smiths over to the Middle East during the Christian Crusades, to steal the secrets, the Solingen blacksmiths have never used the Crucible method, which makes me suspicious about it ever being used in the Middle East, which is what prompted my question. The local ore that was used in Remscheid is significantly responsible for the blade quality output from Solingen: breakdowns of ore content by location have been published extensively. The other important factor responsible for the high grade of blade output from Solingen, and Hounslow, Shotley Bridge, Klingenthal et al. is the specialisation system, where separate guilds (usually family based) performed only one process/stage in blade production; and considering it had been going-on for 2,000 years, they had definitely mastered the arts. Forging was, of course, the "Black Art"... worldwide actually, as I'm sure everyone is aware. Last edited by urbanspaceman; Yesterday at 09:42 PM. Reason: addition

Yesterday, 09:50 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 541	Damascus There has been much consideration over the years/decades regarding the ending of fine blade production in Damascus, with the predominant reasons considered being the loss of the blacksmith's secrets as families died out, but also the depleting of the necessary local ores. I would be interested to learn what research has been done about this.

Yesterday, 08:40 PM	#1
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 476	There used to be some interesting videos of Al Pendray and John Verhoeven using ore from Damascus area and crucible technique assisted by local smiths to recreate crucible steel. Has anyone mentioned the local variances in ores effecting the final outcome of the crystalline structure?