Two uninvited keris for comments

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

But there is a problem in that Kebo Dengen should be Luk Lima & it should not have an ada-ada.

I find that whenever i find a more than basic Kebo keris it becomes rather difficult toi match it exactly to any of the pakem diagrams i have seen of the forms. There is always something that is not quite like what the pakem diagram shows.
And when i google Kebo Dengen i am finding lots of keris that don't even seem to be in the Kebo family (i.e. no elongated gandik). So go figure, eh?

[A. G. Maisey]

Exactly so David.

Even the highly respected Surakarta Pakem book is at variance with popular opinion in many respects.

The whole thing is this:- with keris there is no universal standard that can be applied across the board. My own background is firmly fixed in Surakarta ideas & practices, but this does not mean that those values are universal, it only means that the values & influences of the senior royal house of Jawa set a certain standard in places under its influence. In other places different values can & do apply.

This widespread variation is something that perhaps makes it more important to understand --- or try to understand --- the societal & cultural values attached to the keris, rather than to try to understand the physical values.

Within the Jawa-Bali nexus, there is widespread similarity in societal & cultural values that relate to the keris, whereas there is wide variance in the physical values.