Names of African Swords

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The study of the diffusion of these sabers is far more complex, but of course reflects the importance of the trade routes and how they carried not only goods but many cultural influences far and wide.

The same example is in the neighboring topic Helleri "Cane knife".

Collectors call this type of blades from South Africa - Shona. However, in the territory of modern Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Zambia live different ethnic groups and it is very possible that they have different names for these swords.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Pertinax

The same example is in the neighboring topic Helleri "Cane knife".

Collectors call this type of blades from South Africa - Shona. However, in the territory of modern Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Zambia live different ethnic groups and it is very possible that they have different names for these swords.

Which example? Do you have an image of a 'cane knife"?
Most collectors terms and jargon derive often from translating errors coming from narratives and accounts collected by various people observing and studying various ethnographic groups. Many such accounts were quite early and once the various terms entered the general literature of arms writers, they became firmly ingrained descriptively with writers who followed.

Thus these terms became 'collectors terms' in the vernacular in discussions of such weapons, and whether correct or not, became semantically expedient in use.

A classic example is from India, where the transverse grip dagger now known as KATAR instantly brings to mind the image of these unique weapons. However the weapon itself is actually termed in the early literature in in India as JAMDHAR, which means literally 'tooth of death' or of that character.
When Lord Egerton was researching for his venerable work on the arms of India (1885) he inadvertently transposed the term 'katar' from a regular straight blade knife in Northern India which was known by that term...to the transverse bladed dagger (jamdhar) and now forever remains known by the improper term.

As I say, these analogies could comprise a book in itself, but the point is that the terms used for many, if not most, ethnographic weapons, are often not entirely correct. For the sake of semantic expedience we typically use the commonly held terms long emplaced in the literature, however it is good to know the correct terms with their etymology. This is important to the serious study of ethnographic arms, and the study of the peoples who used them.

Could you please show the knife you refer to as SHONA?
As you well observe, it is quite likely that (BTW what is Helleri?) these knives are called by variant terms through the many tribal people in these regions, as we have discussed.

Actually these kinds of semantically oriented issue in the study of these weapons is very much what brings such intrigue and fascination to their serious study.

[Pertinax]

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall;293445]

Could you please show the knife you refer to as SHONA?
As you well observe, it is quite likely that (BTW what is Helleri?) these knives are called by variant terms through the many tribal people in these regions, as we have discussed.

You probably misunderstood me.

Helleri posted a topic "Cane knife": http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30200

For example, I indicated that this type of knife/blade is called Shona. To do this, just type in the site search - Shona.

Sorry, English is not my native language, so there may be a misunderstanding.

Best regards.

[Jim McDougall]

I did indeed misunderstand Pertinax, my apologies, and you are doing quite well with English.
I knew the ethic group Shona, but misunderstood that you meant the knife was probably Shona, but not called that.

Apparently these knives (and it seems many variant combinations) are called BAKATWA. This of course seems a collective term for these knife variants in these tribal groups , but I dont see it as connected to the Mandinka saber.

Best,
Jim