British 1796 HCS pattern blade shape

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,
Here is a photo showing a range of blade tips found on 1796 heavy cavalry officer service swords.
From top to bottom:
1. Quill-point
2. Spear-pointed pipe-back
3. Spear-pointed intermediate pipe-back.
4. Modified semi spear-point
5. Original unmodified hatchet point

Cheers,
Bryce

[Triarii]

Bryce - excellent photo. What's not to like about that collection. I always did like the look of the hatchet point. I've read about HCS with spear points where the scabbard length matches, implying that they were made that way. I'm not sure you have to lose much blade length to make a spear point, especially an asymmetric one.

Jim - yes, not a duel. It was my faulty memory that made me think that the altercation was a duel and that the falling trooper was from a DG unit and hence carrying an HCS. I wonder if the rider went over to the right and hence the sword fell out as he went over, preceding him hilt first to the ground.

The Rutland militia gripe seemed to be that they said that Major Gordon was i/c barracks had been responsible for restricting their ability to leave.

From reenactment experience, losing your sword from the scabbard is fairly common when falling off. He was very unlucky here. Having your breastplate pushed rather rapidly up under your chin is fairly common.

I note that there were complaints about (memory test here - the AN XI scabbard? being too robust and causing further injury to riders who fell on it).

Radboud - there are conflicting accounts on British cavalry swordplay in the Peninsula - Captain Charles Parquin (FR) said that the British cuts missed 19 times out of 20 but if they did hit, "it was a terrible blow, and it was not unusual for an arm to be cut clean from the body."

On the other hand, at Campo Mayor, the French were broken, according to a 13 LD officer, due to “the superiority of swordsmanship of our fellows [the British 13th Light Dragoons] showed" and at Fuentes de Oñoro; “Our fellows [the British 14th Light Dragoons] evidently had the advantage as individuals.”

[Triarii]

Sgt Maj Cotton of the 7th Hussars mentioned at Waterloo wrt the Household Brigade charge into French currasiers that 'the swords clashing upon the casques and cuirasses so that as Lord Edward Somerset observed to me "You might have fancied that that it was so many tinkers at work."'

[Jim McDougall]

The note on the dates on the heavy cavalry swords:
On underside of the disc: 2D
14
BN30
The top is of course the unit
Next is the year of issue
Next the rack or issue number

As noted I have seen 14 and 15, uncertain of 16 but these are the only ones of have seen so marked. These have been in discussions over the past 20 years or so, but the issue and research have been since the 1970s. Richard Dellar has had notable success in investigating this topic.
Morgan was keyed on hilt design and to my recollection never made comments on markings in the work I am familiar with.

Thank you for correction on the Austrian cavalry sword..it was indeed the 1769....always wanted to find one but never did

Triarii thank you for the additional insights on the particulars of actual situations with these items.
Most interesting in actual experiences, you guys with these re-enactments etc. are amazing, and your keen attention to details give us perspectives we would not otherwise have.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The note on the dates on the heavy cavalry swords:
On underside of the disc: 2D
14
BN30
The top is of course the unit
Next is the year of issue
Next the rack or issue number

Thank you for those details Jim, markings on these swords are still so much of a mystery with many regiments doing their own thing. I hadn’t realised that in some instances dates had been positively identified. Of course in later years they become more uniform and common place, but in this era so much still appears to have been down to the individual regiment.

Re the Austrian 1769, I only remember the model because the date is, ironically, transposed in the 1796.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Radboud

Thank you for those details Jim, markings on these swords are still so much of a mystery with many regiments doing their own thing. I hadn’t realised that in some instances dates had been positively identified. Of course in later years they become more uniform and common place, but in this era so much still appears to have been down to the individual regiment.

Re the Austrian 1769, I only remember the model because the date is, ironically, transposed in the 1796.

You bet Radboud! British regimental markings are indeed a mystery, especially those used in the colonies during the Revolution...the abbreviations are total conundrums and rather than official or standard markings....they used things such as so and so's dragoons, or the same with foot.


Good mnemonics on the Austrian sword date!!!