Names of African Swords

[Changdao]

Originally Posted by Pertinax

Thank you, Marc.
I raised this topic because the current names of African swords and daggers are mostly invented by researchers/collectors or taken, for example, from the name of the people or tribe where this or that item was discovered/made. But in reality they had other names.

P.S. There is a mistake in the first post:
dungi - plain sword, without markings

Regards,
Yuri

It is a frequent phenomenon. Many of the names that stick really are just "sword" in the native language. Sometimes they can be useful, and other times they absolutely flatten the nuances that there are, especially if what is taken as the name is actually that of the people (or part of) using them.

"Mandinka" sabres are absolutely one example. These were used by the Mandinka, the Wolof, the Fulani (many branches of them: Toucouleurs, in Futa Djallon, in coastal Senegambia, etc), but it is rather common to see them attributed only to Mandinka when it is actually unknown. I actually believe that they originated within the Mandinka, just that it happened way back in the XV-XVIth century and it gave way to a rather large weapon family

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Changdao

It is a frequent phenomenon. Many of the names that stick really are just "sword" in the native language. Sometimes they can be useful, and other times they absolutely flatten the nuances that there are, especially if what is taken as the name is actually that of the people (or part of) using them.

"Mandinka" sabres are absolutely one example. These were used by the Mandinka, the Wolof, the Fulani (many branches of them: Toucouleurs, in Futa Djallon, in coastal Senegambia, etc), but it is rather common to see them attributed only to Mandinka when it is actually unknown. I actually believe that they originated within the Mandinka, just that it happened way back in the XV-XVIth century and it gave way to a rather large weapon family

In House, "Mandinka" was apparently called bisalami, almulku.

The author provides interesting data in the note to chapter 3:

19 Leather- and metal-crafts were important native industries. Although many sword blades (s. ruwan takobi) were made locally by the cire-perdue, or "lost wax," method, imported tempered blades were superior and preferred to the more brittle domestic variety. Barth estimated that Kano imported annually about 50,000 sword blades, mostly from Solingen. These were mounted and sheathed by native craftsmen and sold throughout the Sudan: Travels and Discoveries,
I, 519-20.

[Tim Simmons]

You might find this dagger interesting. Scroll down to figure 8 in the link you provided. Although the scabbard is different you see the same weapon. This is obviously 20th century and pristine. It could be "earlyish" having been well kept all its life outside of Africa , who knows, but who cares as it is as I said in pristine condition.

[Changdao]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

You might find this dagger interesting. Scroll down to figure 8 in the link you provided. Although the scabbard is different you see the same weapon. This is obviously 20th century and pristine. It could be "earlyish" having been well kept all its life outside of Africa , who knows, but who cares as it is as I said in pristine condition.

Those weapon figures in that book are mostly wrong. In Figure 8, most of those dagger are in a style usually associated with the Toubou, not the Hausa, and the dagger like yours is associated to the areas west of the Niger River bend, particularly to the Mandinka (at least the style of the leatherwork).

However, this type of dagger with the red leather is associated in particular with the Wolof in Senegal, at least according to the identifications and provenance of various pieces in the Quai de Branly Museum.

Examples here:

https://www.quaibranly.fr/en/explore...-son-fourreau´

https://www.quaibranly.fr/en/explore...t-son-fourreau

https://www.quaibranly.fr/en/explore...17333-poignard

https://www.quaibranly.fr/en/explore...rd-et-fourreau

[Pertinax]

[QUOTE=Changdao;293351]Those weapon figures in that book are mostly wrong. In Figure 8, most of those dagger are in a style usually associated with the Toubou, not the Hausa, and the dagger like yours is associated to the areas west of the Niger River bend, particularly to the Mandinka (at least the style of the leatherwork).

As I understand it, the author in the photo showed general examples of swords and daggers that House used, without specific names.

[Tim Simmons]

This might help show how weapons an styles cross borders. Also ethinc groups scattered in the modern states of West Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fula_jihads
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futa_Tooro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fula_l...ss%20some%2018

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

You might find this dagger interesting. Scroll down to figure 8 in the link you provided. Although the scabbard is different you see the same weapon. This is obviously 20th century and pristine. It could be "earlyish" having been well kept all its life outside of Africa , who knows, but who cares as it is as I said in pristine condition.

Yes, it looks like the top one. And the other 4 daggers, we are used to calling - dagger Tubu.

[Tim Simmons]

Who really knows what is right or wrong in such a vast and varied region. All our information is from multi opinions that cannot be verified.

[Changdao]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Who really knows what is right or wrong in such a vast and varied region. All our information is from multi opinions that cannot be verified.

But much of it can certainly be verified, to a certain degree. There are a lot of precolonial and colonial drawings and photographies in which weapons are shown. Not all are reliable, and some should be taken with extreme caution, but when put together they paint a decent picture of the situation.

Of course, there are so many gaps in our knowledge due to a lack of study and poor sources (in the lack of archaeological evidence) that so much of the granularity is lost.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Changdao

But much of it can certainly be verified, to a certain degree. There are a lot of precolonial and colonial drawings and photographies in which weapons are shown. Not all are reliable, and some should be taken with extreme caution, but when put together they paint a decent picture of the situation.

Of course, there are so many gaps in our knowledge due to a lack of study and poor sources (in the lack of archaeological evidence) that so much of the granularity is lost.

I agree 100%.

But it seems to me that the names of African swords, daggers that we use and were mostly invented by researchers/collectors will remain the same. These names have become too widespread among collectors all over the world. On the other hand, it is convenient, by the name of the people or tribe you can determine where this or that item was discovered/made.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Changdao

It is a frequent phenomenon. Many of the names that stick really are just "sword" in the native language. Sometimes they can be useful, and other times they absolutely flatten the nuances that there are, especially if what is taken as the name is actually that of the people (or part of) using them.

"Mandinka" sabres are absolutely one example. These were used by the Mandinka, the Wolof, the Fulani (many branches of them: Toucouleurs, in Futa Djallon, in coastal Senegambia, etc), but it is rather common to see them attributed only to Mandinka when it is actually unknown. I actually believe that they originated within the Mandinka, just that it happened way back in the XV-XVIth century and it gave way to a rather large weapon family

To add to my previous soliloquy;
The 'Mandinka' sabers are as noted typically regarded as from this tribe and from Mali, but obviously there are not distinct geographic boundaries to their regional presence. As far as I have known, there has never been a term for these sabers distinctly assigned, nor a distinct regional categorization...simply that it is a Mandinka saber.

The Mandinka tribes as I have understood were keenly in control of Trans Saharan trade routes which of course went through the important hub of Timbuktu in Mali. This alone would account for the diffusion of these type sabers, and the distinct leather work which seems to come from the west.
It is notable that the flared scabbard tip which is a distinctly Sudanese feature from the kaskara is present on these Mandinka sabers.

Also notable is that these typically have European saber blades, which is atypical for the preference of straight broadsword blades from Sahara to Sudan with the takouba and kaskara. Here I would note that some Tuareg swords with takouba type hilts have such saber blades and are known as ALJUINAR in Taureg parlance.

As far as the MANDINKA saber, I was once discussing these with a Fulani man from Guinea and showed him photos of one of these.
He immediately recognized it and called it KOTA........and pointed out the scabbard as called HOLGA (= house, apparently).

The study of the diffusion of these sabers is far more complex, but of course reflects the importance of the trade routes and how they carried not only goods but many cultural influences far and wide.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The study of the diffusion of these sabers is far more complex, but of course reflects the importance of the trade routes and how they carried not only goods but many cultural influences far and wide.

The same example is in the neighboring topic Helleri "Cane knife".

Collectors call this type of blades from South Africa - Shona. However, in the territory of modern Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Zambia live different ethnic groups and it is very possible that they have different names for these swords.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Pertinax

The same example is in the neighboring topic Helleri "Cane knife".

Collectors call this type of blades from South Africa - Shona. However, in the territory of modern Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Zambia live different ethnic groups and it is very possible that they have different names for these swords.

Which example? Do you have an image of a 'cane knife"?
Most collectors terms and jargon derive often from translating errors coming from narratives and accounts collected by various people observing and studying various ethnographic groups. Many such accounts were quite early and once the various terms entered the general literature of arms writers, they became firmly ingrained descriptively with writers who followed.

Thus these terms became 'collectors terms' in the vernacular in discussions of such weapons, and whether correct or not, became semantically expedient in use.

A classic example is from India, where the transverse grip dagger now known as KATAR instantly brings to mind the image of these unique weapons. However the weapon itself is actually termed in the early literature in in India as JAMDHAR, which means literally 'tooth of death' or of that character.
When Lord Egerton was researching for his venerable work on the arms of India (1885) he inadvertently transposed the term 'katar' from a regular straight blade knife in Northern India which was known by that term...to the transverse bladed dagger (jamdhar) and now forever remains known by the improper term.

As I say, these analogies could comprise a book in itself, but the point is that the terms used for many, if not most, ethnographic weapons, are often not entirely correct. For the sake of semantic expedience we typically use the commonly held terms long emplaced in the literature, however it is good to know the correct terms with their etymology. This is important to the serious study of ethnographic arms, and the study of the peoples who used them.

Could you please show the knife you refer to as SHONA?
As you well observe, it is quite likely that (BTW what is Helleri?) these knives are called by variant terms through the many tribal people in these regions, as we have discussed.

Actually these kinds of semantically oriented issue in the study of these weapons is very much what brings such intrigue and fascination to their serious study.

[Pertinax]

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall;293445]

Could you please show the knife you refer to as SHONA?
As you well observe, it is quite likely that (BTW what is Helleri?) these knives are called by variant terms through the many tribal people in these regions, as we have discussed.

You probably misunderstood me.

Helleri posted a topic "Cane knife": http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30200

For example, I indicated that this type of knife/blade is called Shona. To do this, just type in the site search - Shona.

Sorry, English is not my native language, so there may be a misunderstanding.

Best regards.

[Jim McDougall]

I did indeed misunderstand Pertinax, my apologies, and you are doing quite well with English.
I knew the ethic group Shona, but misunderstood that you meant the knife was probably Shona, but not called that.

Apparently these knives (and it seems many variant combinations) are called BAKATWA. This of course seems a collective term for these knife variants in these tribal groups , but I dont see it as connected to the Mandinka saber.

Best,
Jim

[Changdao]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

To add to my previous soliloquy;
The 'Mandinka' sabers are as noted typically regarded as from this tribe and from Mali, but obviously there are not distinct geographic boundaries to their regional presence. As far as I have known, there has never been a term for these sabers distinctly assigned, nor a distinct regional categorization...simply that it is a Mandinka saber.

The Mandinka tribes as I have understood were keenly in control of Trans Saharan trade routes which of course went through the important hub of Timbuktu in Mali. This alone would account for the diffusion of these type sabers, and the distinct leather work which seems to come from the west.
It is notable that the flared scabbard tip which is a distinctly Sudanese feature from the kaskara is present on these Mandinka sabers.

Also notable is that these typically have European saber blades, which is atypical for the preference of straight broadsword blades from Sahara to Sudan with the takouba and kaskara. Here I would note that some Tuareg swords with takouba type hilts have such saber blades and are known as ALJUINAR in Taureg parlance.

As far as the MANDINKA saber, I was once discussing these with a Fulani man from Guinea and showed him photos of one of these.
He immediately recognized it and called it KOTA........and pointed out the scabbard as called HOLGA (= house, apparently).

The study of the diffusion of these sabers is far more complex, but of course reflects the importance of the trade routes and how they carried not only goods but many cultural influences far and wide.

Not only there aren't distinct geographical borders, but ethnical as well. These were used in a very wide area from the Atlantic coast by a wide range of ethnicities, from Mandinka to Wolof and various varieties of Fulani (Tukulors, those in the kingdom of Kaabu, those in Futa Djallon, etc.).

The Mandinka, particularly Dyula, were indeed in control of many trade routes, but these were internal ones, which we know were pretty intense. Mali lost control of the various terminus cities of Trans-Saharan trade in the 1430's to the Magsharan Tuareg, and never recovered them. However, Mandinka traders were present all over west Africa, from the coast to the interior, and traded a high volume of various things. One of these was metal implements forged by skilled Mandinka blacksmiths.

Particularly relevant to these sabers, the Portuguese confirm the presence of sabers all over modern Senegal in the 1450's (from the south bank of the Senegal river to the river Gambia, from where they specifically came and where they were likely forged by Mandinka smiths and exported). Obviously we don't know how these sabers were (or the 80 cm long doubled edged shortswords described also by the Portuguese in the 1600's), but I don't believe that it is a very far-fetched idea to at least suppose they were related to the "Mandinka" sabers and shortswords/daggers. Particularly interesting is the fact that there are notable similarities in the abstract shape of the hilt of both types, especially in the metallic knob in the pommel.

The widespread of the basic idea but with so many regional variations, particularly seen in weapons from Sierra Leone at the edge of the distribution range speaks of the deep roots in history of the weapon family, especialy given the profound Mandinka influence in the history of the region and local ethnogenesis before and as a consequence of the Mane invasion around 1550 (especially because their panoply was apparently identical to the Mande-speaking Susu and to Mandinka caravan guards in the river Gambia!)

The takouba likely has a similarly deep history in West Africa, with its wide range of distribution and regionalised styles. Particularly intriguing is that Leo Africanus c.1510 states that European blades were imported to the Songhay Empire and sold at Gao, for a pretty high price, presumably to be mounted in the local style. Given that we have extant takouba blades from the XVIIth century, at the very least it gives evidence that the practice goes at least a century before that. Without much in the way of solid evidence, but again a reasonable inference in my view, I would say that the takouba style hilt was also present in some form by that date.

I would not overemphasize the European blades. Probably what there is at play is survivor bias, in that most "mandinka" sabers that have survived were captured at the tail end of the 19th century, at a time when Africa (and the rest of the world) was flooded by European-made industrial blades. That's not to say that the imports were not significative, though.

[Jim McDougall]

Extremely well put Changdao!!
This is probably one of the best and most comprehensive explanations of the dynamics of West African sword forms and those tribal peoples who used them that I have read. I like your perspective on 'survivor bias' with regard to the volumes of European blades coming into these trade networks in the 19th century resulting in the predominance of them in these swords acquired in that time.
While it seems to me that the accounts of travelers noting the notably high volumes of European blades coming in by the 1830s seem suspiciously exaggerated, there were certainly large numbers circulating by the periods these tribal weapons were collected by westerners.

With these blades in circulation for generations and remounted time and time again, it seems that the European blades were eagerly collected for posterity in the latter 19th century. We know, as Oakeshott noted, that many kaskaras with European blades were cannibalized for the cottage industry of creating medieval broadswords for gentlemens 'smoking rooms' displays.

[Tim Simmons]

Got this piece at real knock down price as the blade is stuck in the scabbard. I am hoping for easy retrieval and a fair condition blade that is not too rusty, fingers cross. Will follow up. I was meant to be no longer collecting.

[Pertinax]

This is my copy, not old, the blade is clearly locally made. I have long wanted to buy something more "ancient", but so far it has not been possible.

[Tim Simmons]

This is one I had with a native blade quite flexible and razor . There. is a much better photo of it with the scabbard some where on this site but I cannot find it for now. Wish I had kept it now. Sold the bulk of the collection some time ago. Why did I do that??? I do not know. The money went so quickly.