Antique kalis for comment

[Ian]

Hi Xas,

I think I have commented previously about the similarities between Sulu and Malay kris.

The area that you highlight, in Javanese keris terms, is the greneng. (I don't know a Moro term for this feature.) Typically, the file work extends above and below the line of separation between the gangya and the blade. What you are pointing to is a shorter distance of file work above the line of separation on your kris. I have not looked at this feature specifically. My impression is that the length of the greneng above the line of separation is variable on keris, and not standardized in terms of the number of ron dah, etc. We need a keris expert for that one.

However, your point is well taken. This could indeed be an atypical Sulu blade (as I did mention above), but I think it shows Malay influence for reasons already stated.

As I look at the most recent picture of your kris, which shows the carved area clearly, I note that what the Javanese call lambe gajah (elephant lips) appear on its gandhik. This is very unusual for Moro kris. In the vast majority of Moro kris, going back to "early" kris, that I have looked at the "upper lip" is found at the bottom of the gandhik and the "lower lip" is at the top of the gangya—thus the lambe gajah span the line of separation between the gandhik and the gangya. This contrasts with the "Modern Javanese Keris," which has the lambe gajah towards the base of the gandhik (as also shown on your kris).

If you look at the examples you show of Malay sundang, the one with the ivory pommel has its lambe gajah completely on the gandhik (similar to the "Modern Indonesian Keris" and your kris). This may seem a small esoteric point, but it adds to my assessment of Malay influence for your Sulu kris.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Xas,

I think I have commented previously about the similarities between Sulu and Malay kris.

The area that you highlight, in Javanese keris terms, is the greneng. (I don't know a Moro term for this feature.) Typically, the file work extends above and below the line of separation between the gangya and the blade. What you are pointing to is a shorter distance of file work above the line of separation on your kris. I have not looked at this feature specifically. My impression is that the length of the greneng above the line of separation is variable on keris, and not standardized in terms of the number of ron dah, etc. We need a keris expert for that one.

However, your point is well taken. This could indeed be an atypical Sulu blade (as I did mention above), but I think it shows Malay influence for reasons already stated.

As I look at the most recent picture of your kris, which shows the carved area clearly, I note that what the Javanese call lambe gajah (elephant lips) appear on its gandhik. This is very unusual for Moro kris. In the vast majority of Moro kris, going back to "early" kris, that I have looked at the "upper lip" is found at the bottom of the gandhik and the "lower lip" is at the top of the gangya—thus the lambe gajah span the line of separation between the gandhik and the gangya. This contrasts with the "Modern Javanese Keris," which has the lambe gajah towards the base of the gandhik (as also shown on your kris).

If you look at the examples you show of Malay sundang, the one with the ivory pommel has its lambe gajah completely on the gandhik (similar to the "Modern Indonesian Keris" and your kris). This may seem a small esoteric point, but it adds to my assessment of Malay influence for your Sulu kris.

Halloo Ian,

Thanks for your points, I understand where you're coming from. A kalis with Malay influence is an acceptable label for me. With the close proximity of Moro and Malay interactions during the pre1900s eras (trade, intermarriage, shared territories, migration, etc), such Malay influences are to be expected in Moro blades, and vice versa (Moro influence on Malay blades). Admittedly I know too little of Malay-made keris sundang to make further differentiations; the only references I've studied were by Gardner (1936) and Frey (1989), plus really helpful inputs from my Malaysian friends, who collect various keris, including Moro kris and kalis.

As a final emphasis- I'd like to focus on the hilt to solidify this sword as being Sulu-identified. From the POV of the peoples of PH and their tradblades, the dress is the "latest ID" for a sword. For example- a Mindanao kris that was captured and re-dressed with Visayan hilt and scabbard (a hybrid one from a semantics POV), ceases to be a Moro kris- from the POV of both Visayan and Moro groups, it's now a Visayan kris.

In a similar manner, a Sulu kalis that was re-dressed with Lumad hilt and scabbard ceases to be kalis, but rather is recognized as a Lumad kris. A Samar-made garab that was re-dressed in Tagalog nobility style is now an itak, or a tabak.

Though the blade may have been originally made by a different ethnolinguistic group or a foreign area- the dress indicates the ID of the last owner, and thus assumes the appropriate ethnolinguistic affiliation and equivalent sword ID (if there is any) for that group.

So, in my mind- the blade may indeed be Sulu-made, Malay-made, Sulu with Malay influence, (or vice versa) or even Mindanao-made. But its undoubtedly Sulu-made hilt identifies the last owner as a Suluanon- and in the POV of Sulu, the equivalent term for keris sundang (Malay) or kris sundang (Mindanao) would be kalis

[Ian]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Halloo Ian,

Thanks for your points, I understand where you're coming from. A kalis with Malay influence is an acceptable label for me. With the close proximity of Moro and Malay interactions during the pre1900s eras (trade, intermarriage, shared territories, migration, etc), such Malay influences are to be expected in Moro blades, and vice versa (Moro influence on Malay blades). Admittedly I know too little of Malay-made keris sundang to make further differentiations; the only references I've studied were by Gardner (1936) and Frey (1989), plus really helpful inputs from my Malaysian friends, who collect various keris, including Moro kris and kalis.

As a final emphasis- I'd like to focus on the hilt to solidify this sword as being Sulu-identified. From the POV of the peoples of PH and their tradblades, the dress is the "latest ID" for a sword. For example- a Mindanao kris that was captured and re-dressed with Visayan hilt and scabbard (a hybrid one from a semantics POV), ceases to be a Moro kris- from the POV of both Visayan and Moro groups, it's now a Visayan kris.

In a similar manner, a Sulu kalis that was re-dressed with Lumad hilt and scabbard ceases to be kalis, but rather is recognized as a Lumad kris. A Samar-made garab that was re-dressed in Tagalog nobility style is now an itak, or a tabak.

Though the blade may have been originally made by a different ethnolinguistic group or a foreign area- the dress indicates the ID of the last owner, and thus assumes the appropriate ethnolinguistic affiliation and equivalent sword ID (if there is any) for that group.

So, in my mind- the blade may indeed be Sulu-made, Malay-made, Sulu with Malay influence, (or vice versa) or even Mindanao-made. But its undoubtedly Sulu-made hilt identifies the last owner as a Suluanon- and in the POV of Sulu, the equivalent term for keris sundang (Malay) or kris sundang (Mindanao) would be kalis

This is very important cultural context! I must admit that I focus on the blade and less on the dress of Moro weapons, particularly kris.

Your point is very important with respect to the notion of last ownership defining what a Moro kris is. It has its logic. This differs, I understand, from the Indonesian keris where the dhapur, based on features and style of the blade defines the keris, which may be in various ethnic forms of dress. Even though a keris may have, say, a Bugis hilt and scabbard, if the blade is Javanese it is still a Javanese keris (that happens to be owned by a Bugis). I suppose one could say that it is a Bugis' keris, but not a Bugis keris (a subtle point but important for how the object is described).

[Battara]

I find it interesting that the inner core of the blade is very wavy whereas the edges are shallower and not matching as much.

I agree that this is probably earlier than mid-19c and the smith was a true master. Also, I noticed that the engraved lines going down both sides of the blade once had silver inlay.

Thanks for posting this Ray!

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Battara

I find it interesting that the inner core of the blade is very wavy whereas the edges are shallower and not matching as much. ...!

It's almost as though there has been an attempt to obliterate the waves and convert it to a straight blade.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Battara

I find it interesting that the inner core of the blade is very wavy whereas the edges are shallower and not matching as much.

I agree that this is probably earlier than mid-19c and the smith was a true master. Also, I noticed that the engraved lines going down both sides of the blade once had silver inlay.

Thanks for posting this Ray!

Thanks for the assessment! Sirs Jose and Ian, I think the shallower-than-usual form of the blade profile may likely be due to: 1) extensive sharpening; 2) owner's preference; 3) era- or area-specific signature.

It can also be a combination of those factors. I've seen at least 3 other Sulu kalis from the late 1800s-early 1900s era which also had shallow waves (and one of them was also twistcore). But admittedly, mine is the shallowest of them all

[Ian]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Thanks for the assessment! Sirs Jose and Ian, I think the shallower-than-usual form of the blade profile may likely be due to: 1) extensive sharpening; 2) owner's preference; 3) era- or area-specific signature.

It can also be a combination of those factors. I've seen at least 3 other Sulu kalis from the late 1800s-early 1900s era which also had shallow waves (and one of them was also twistcore). But admittedly, mine is the shallowest of them all

Ray, I think your example is more marked than many similar blades. Very shallow waves are a fairly common feature on some of the long, broad-bladed examples of the era you mentioned. I've seen them in Maguindanao and Maranao dress also.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Ian

I've seen them in Maguindanao and Maranao dress also.

Same here. I've seen these too.