a puzzle

Jim McDougall · 22nd August 2024, 09:13 PM

I have no expertise on bayonets, but have a couple of references I was able to dig out.
As 10th has noted, that spring catch is exactly right for EIC Brown Bess c.1800-1805 ("Collectors Pictorial Book of Bayonets", F.Stephens, 1971. #31).

However this is entirely an anomaly, and that catch is most of what corresponds to the EIC example.
There is the recent book, "Socket Bayonets" by Graham Priest (2016) which is an intriguing insight into these bayonets which offers information not in the venerable old references.

One thing I notice in the markings on the socket......supposedly 11 over 81, in accord with rack numbers often seen, however.....these characters look more like Roman numerals II rather than 11 (note serifs).

The '81' also seemed more like letters than numbers.
In the Priest book, I was astounded to see the example 98 (p.51) shown as a bayonet from a British volunteer unit from around 1790(?) .
LOOK AT THE CHARACTERS! very similar, looks like an 18 (it is noted only 18 made).
This bayonet obviously looks nothing like yours, but that marking is compelling.
In this period 1790s in England, there was a great deal of worry about French invasion, and there were numbers of militia, volunteer units formed, for which records are pretty scarce.

With the key element of the EIC type spring catch, it is tempting to think this might have been some sort of innovation in accord with the many changes in firearms design etc. of the time.

The view mark is in accord with the crown over numeral used 1796-1820 (after that letters were added, Robson, 1975, p.191).

It is unusual to see a back fuller on a blade, which seems entirely out of the norm with the triangular socket bayonets, and I am unclear on what sort of pioneer sword might be source for a host blade, or why one would be used for a munitions grade bayonet. There was however a great deal of artisan 'for the cause' work with people in various trades doing other work unrelated to their trade.

Could the '18' (?) be letters for some local unit, S.I. and the II the unit number? Then the MOST unusual blade shape.

These are the pieces of the puzzle, and all we can do is speculate at this point. One thing for sure, this is an anomaly with potential for some remarkable history!

22nd August 2024, 09:13 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	I have no expertise on bayonets, but have a couple of references I was able to dig out. As 10th has noted, that spring catch is exactly right for EIC Brown Bess c.1800-1805 ("Collectors Pictorial Book of Bayonets", F.Stephens, 1971. #31). However this is entirely an anomaly, and that catch is most of what corresponds to the EIC example. There is the recent book, "Socket Bayonets" by Graham Priest (2016) which is an intriguing insight into these bayonets which offers information not in the venerable old references. One thing I notice in the markings on the socket......supposedly 11 over 81, in accord with rack numbers often seen, however.....these characters look more like Roman numerals II rather than 11 (note serifs). The '81' also seemed more like letters than numbers. In the Priest book, I was astounded to see the example 98 (p.51) shown as a bayonet from a British volunteer unit from around 1790(?) . LOOK AT THE CHARACTERS! very similar, looks like an 18 (it is noted only 18 made). This bayonet obviously looks nothing like yours, but that marking is compelling. In this period 1790s in England, there was a great deal of worry about French invasion, and there were numbers of militia, volunteer units formed, for which records are pretty scarce. With the key element of the EIC type spring catch, it is tempting to think this might have been some sort of innovation in accord with the many changes in firearms design etc. of the time. The view mark is in accord with the crown over numeral used 1796-1820 (after that letters were added, Robson, 1975, p.191). It is unusual to see a back fuller on a blade, which seems entirely out of the norm with the triangular socket bayonets, and I am unclear on what sort of pioneer sword might be source for a host blade, or why one would be used for a munitions grade bayonet. There was however a great deal of artisan 'for the cause' work with people in various trades doing other work unrelated to their trade. Could the '18' (?) be letters for some local unit, S.I. and the II the unit number? Then the MOST unusual blade shape. These are the pieces of the puzzle, and all we can do is speculate at this point. One thing for sure, this is an anomaly with potential for some remarkable history! Attached Images