three Bali Keris

[HughChen]

Hello all,

I have 3 Bali Keris in my collections.

The first one is said to be from the nineteenth century, and this one is special because it has a smooth blade and is not as rough as the other keris.

The second one is also said to be from the nineteenth century, and this one has an ugly hilt, and the blade is pretty thin. I think it's used for ceremony or decoration not for combat.

The third one is said to be form the Seventeenth or eighteenth century，it has a very beautiful demon hilt. However the blade is slightly damaged.

Can you help me to identify if they are really old antiques or maybe they are just souvenirs made recently ?

[HughChen]

More pics of the first Keris

[HughChen]

More pics of the second one

[HughChen]

More pics of the third one

[milandro]

the first and the third are krises of some merits, but I am afraid the second one isn't. I see it often as a tourist kris. I doubt the blade is Balinese.

The first kris seems to me more a Lombok kris than it would be a Balinese but I am sure there are other members whom could elaborate more.

I can't honestly say that the 1st and 3rd are antiques therefore more than 100 years old but they are certainly not recently made.

[HughChen]

Originally Posted by milandro

the first and the third are krises of some merits, but I am afraid the second one isn't. I see it often as a tourist kris. I doubt the blade is Balinese.

The first kris seems to me more a Lombok kris than it would be a Balinese but I am sure there are other members whom could elaborate more.

I can't honestly say that the 1st and 3rd are antiques therefore more than 100 years old but they are certainly not recently made.

Thank you Milandro

One more question, Can you tell if them are made of meteorite？ Thanks.

[HughChen]

I have seen someone in this forums have a very similar Keris like mine (the second one). What a coincidence!

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=guilty+party

[Sajen]

Welcome to the forum HC,

The first shown keris is a nice one, I guess around 1900, not high quality but good, nice and legit. Bali or Lombok I can't say, I think both are possible. You should turn the handle by 180 degree!

The second one has a Javanese Blade, the workmanship of the handle and scabbard is low and I doubt that it's Balinese workmanship, looks Javanese or Madurese to my eyes but I just don't know, mid. 20th century? I've seen similar ones before but I don't know if they are made for selling purpose or for local use.

The third one is very, very nice, I like this blade and the handle as well. Sadly the scabbard is missing, it would be worth it to let made a new one for it. When you mean with "damage" the visible pitting, it's nothing you should bother about!

Regards,
Detlef

[HughChen]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Welcome to the forum HC,

The first shown keris is a nice one, I guess around 1900, not high quality but good, nice and legit. Bali or Lombok I can't say, I think both are possible.

The second one has a Javanese Blade, the workmanship of the handle and scabbard is low and I doubt that it's Balinese workmanship, looks Javenese or Madurese to my eyes but I just don't know, mid. 20th century? I've seen similar ones before but I don't know if they are made for selling purpose or for local use.

The third one is very, very nice, I like this blade and the handle as well. Sadly the scabbard is missing, it would be worth it to let made a new one for it.

Regards,
Detlef

Thank you, Sajen

I'm very happy with your comments.

It's basically the same as my own perception of them. I also think the third one is the best, followed by the first one, and the second one is a lower grade.

It's a pity that we don't have a craftsman here to make a scabbard for Kris, otherwise I would have liked to make a suitable scabbard for him.

[A. G. Maisey]

As Detlef has written:- #1 & #3 are not bad keris at all & genuinely old Balinese --- not super old, but I'd put #1 as pre-WWII & the blade of #3 as 19th century, maybe second half.

#2 is a very ordinary Javanese blade, the hilt & scabbard were made in Jogja, most probably by Bp. Prawirodihardjo(Alm.) or possibly his father.

[HughChen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

As Detlef has written:- #1 & #3 are not bad keris at all & genuinely old Balinese --- not super old, but I'd put #1 as pre-WWII & the blade of #3 as 19th century, maybe second half.

#2 is a very ordinary Javanese blade, the hilt & scabbard were made in Jogja, most probably by Bp. Prawirodihardjo(Alm.) or possibly his father.

Thank you, Maisey

It's amazing that you can tell who made the hilt & scabbard of #2. How do you know that? Is Bp. Prawirodihardjo also a member of this forum?

[HughChen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

As Detlef has written:- #1 & #3 are not bad keris at all & genuinely old Balinese --- not super old, but I'd put #1 as pre-WWII & the blade of #3 as 19th century, maybe second half.

#2 is a very ordinary Javanese blade, the hilt & scabbard were made in Jogja, most probably by Bp. Prawirodihardjo(Alm.) or possibly his father.

Thank you, Maisey

You are very knowledgable. Can you tell us who are Bp. Prawirodihardjo(Alm.) and his father? Are they craftsman bofore or during WW2?

[A. G. Maisey]

Hugh, Bapak (Bp. = Mr.) Prawirodiharjo has moved to the unseen world many years ago, possibly 20 or so years, the abbreviation Alm. = "almarhum" which means deceased.

He was known by a different name in the keris trade, & I would prefer not to use that other name. He came from a very long line of m'ranggis & pande keris, he was an extremely talented man, but was unknown outside the Central Javanese keris trade. He would not normally deal with the general public, but if somebody was personally introduced to him by one of his regular clients he was open to taking orders.

Everybody believes that keris production stopped in Jawa from before WWII, however this gentleman & his father & other members of his family were making keris that were copies of mostly Mataram keris, often with kinatah work, that were only available to the trade, from before the Japanese occupation through to the 1990's. He was the last of his line. His son did not follow family tradition but became a breeder of pigeons & doves.

I have this knowledge because I was a member of the keris trade in Central Jawa from about 1974 until 2015. I was trained by some of best known empus & m'ranggis in Solo.

[HughChen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Hugh, Bapak (Bp. = Mr.) Prawirodiharjo has moved to the unseen world many years ago, possibly 20 or so years, the abbreviation Alm. = "almarhum" which means deceased.

He was known by a different name in the keris trade, & I would prefer not to use that other name. He came from a very long line of m'ranggis & pande keris, he was an extremely talented man, but was unknown outside the Central Javanese keris trade. He would not normally deal with the general public, but if somebody was personally introduced to him by one of his regular clients he was open to taking orders.

Everybody believes that keris production stopped in Jawa from before WWII, however this gentleman & his father & other members of his family were making keris that were copies of mostly Mataram keris, often with kinatah work, that were only available to the trade, from before the Japanese occupation through to the 1990's. He was the last of his line. His son did not follow family tradition but became a breeder of pigeons & doves.

I have this knowledge because I was a member of the keris trade in Central Jawa from about 1974 until 2015. I was trained by some of best known empus & m'ranggis in Solo.

Thank you, Maisey! Interesting history! How can we learn more about the history of Keris systematically online?

[HughChen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Hugh, Bapak (Bp. = Mr.) Prawirodiharjo has moved to the unseen world many years ago, possibly 20 or so years, the abbreviation Alm. = "almarhum" which means deceased.

He was known by a different name in the keris trade, & I would prefer not to use that other name. He came from a very long line of m'ranggis & pande keris, he was an extremely talented man, but was unknown outside the Central Javanese keris trade. He would not normally deal with the general public, but if somebody was personally introduced to him by one of his regular clients he was open to taking orders.

Everybody believes that keris production stopped in Jawa from before WWII, however this gentleman & his father & other members of his family were making keris that were copies of mostly Mataram keris, often with kinatah work, that were only available to the trade, from before the Japanese occupation through to the 1990's. He was the last of his line. His son did not follow family tradition but became a breeder of pigeons & doves.

I have this knowledge because I was a member of the keris trade in Central Jawa from about 1974 until 2015. I was trained by some of best known empus & m'ranggis in Solo.

Thank you Maisey. The point of the keris blade is very thin which seems vulnerable , and the blade has a wired scent. Is that normal for an old Javanese Keris?

[milandro]

Originally Posted by HughChen

the blade has a wired scent. Is that normal for an old Javanese Keris?

in Indonesia it is normal to hold blades on incense and to treat the blade with perfumed oils

[A. G. Maisey]

Just about anything can be normal for keris, there is tremendous variation in what we see.

[HughChen]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Welcome to the forum HC,

The first shown keris is a nice one, I guess around 1900, not high quality but good, nice and legit. Bali or Lombok I can't say, I think both are possible. You should turn the handle by 180 degree!

The second one has a Javanese Blade, the workmanship of the handle and scabbard is low and I doubt that it's Balinese workmanship, looks Javanese or Madurese to my eyes but I just don't know, mid. 20th century? I've seen similar ones before but I don't know if they are made for selling purpose or for local use.

The third one is very, very nice, I like this blade and the handle as well. Sadly the scabbard is missing, it would be worth it to let made a new one for it. When you mean with "damage" the visible pitting, it's nothing you should bother about!

Regards,
Detlef

Hello, Sajen.

Can you help me ID the Pamor pattern of the first Keris? I've seldom a similar Balinese Keris with so much white part than black part in Pamor.