1576 dated musket - unknown marking

Jim McDougall · 2nd August 2024, 04:12 PM

Finally found it!
In Gyngell p.75 ("Armorers Marks", 1959), listed as a 16th c Milanese swordmakers mark c.1600.
This of course does not limit to sword makers as armorers handled all forms of weaponry, and as earlier noted, this marking may well simply apply to some sort of guild representation or simply be intended as to quality etc.

The snake symbol as I earlier noted was from Milanese heraldry in the city arms and derives from such a device from Constantinople in 11th c. becoming adopted in Milan as the 'biscione' (grass snake?) as a heraldic charge.
By 16th century, the Sforza dynasty had the allegoric device in their arms.

These stylized and simpler versions of the snake seem to have been used in variation rather in the manner of the 'Passau wolf', or the 'sickle marks' og Genoa, but are by no means apparently as ubiquitous.

In "European Makers of Edged Weapons, Their Marks" Staffan Kinman, 2015, p.106 this very snake mark (from Gyngell) is shown attributed to the famed Ferara brothers, of Belluno. That city was under Milanese jurisdiction then.

In the entry with similar date markings on the barrel, 1581 and 1583 it is noted by the mark the barrel was by Georg LAMPL (?) of Graz (Styria).
In Styrian references I can only find a George LINL working 1577-1608.

It would seem that guns from various provenance were stored in the Styrian armory at Graz (built 1642-1645) in remarkable quantity. This would seem to impair my earlier suggestion that perhaps these dates added to the barrels were added at the Styrian armory.....UNLESS these were applied later of course as they entered the armory.

While the Milanese snake mark noted here with the Gyngell entry as well as the Kinman, both to swordsmiths are with the serpent straight.......and the example in discussion has a coiled tail, this may suggest an armorer perhaps indeed in Graz, using his interpretation of the snake as a quality indicator. This would be in the same manner that Styrian blade makers so often used the so called "Genoan' sickle marks. or Solingen used the Passau wolf.

As always, like to keep it brief

2nd August 2024, 04:12 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	MARKING-MILAN C.1600 Finally found it! In Gyngell p.75 ("Armorers Marks", 1959), listed as a 16th c Milanese swordmakers mark c.1600. This of course does not limit to sword makers as armorers handled all forms of weaponry, and as earlier noted, this marking may well simply apply to some sort of guild representation or simply be intended as to quality etc. The snake symbol as I earlier noted was from Milanese heraldry in the city arms and derives from such a device from Constantinople in 11th c. becoming adopted in Milan as the 'biscione' (grass snake?) as a heraldic charge. By 16th century, the Sforza dynasty had the allegoric device in their arms. These stylized and simpler versions of the snake seem to have been used in variation rather in the manner of the 'Passau wolf', or the 'sickle marks' og Genoa, but are by no means apparently as ubiquitous. In "European Makers of Edged Weapons, Their Marks" Staffan Kinman, 2015, p.106 this very snake mark (from Gyngell) is shown attributed to the famed Ferara brothers, of Belluno. That city was under Milanese jurisdiction then. In the entry with similar date markings on the barrel, 1581 and 1583 it is noted by the mark the barrel was by Georg LAMPL (?) of Graz (Styria). In Styrian references I can only find a George LINL working 1577-1608. It would seem that guns from various provenance were stored in the Styrian armory at Graz (built 1642-1645) in remarkable quantity. This would seem to impair my earlier suggestion that perhaps these dates added to the barrels were added at the Styrian armory.....UNLESS these were applied later of course as they entered the armory. While the Milanese snake mark noted here with the Gyngell entry as well as the Kinman, both to swordsmiths are with the serpent straight.......and the example in discussion has a coiled tail, this may suggest an armorer perhaps indeed in Graz, using his interpretation of the snake as a quality indicator. This would be in the same manner that Styrian blade makers so often used the so called "Genoan' sickle marks. or Solingen used the Passau wolf. As always, like to keep it brief Attached Images