Asking for your assistance again ...

[Ian]

Gentlemen,

In my search for the transition of the Javanese/Balinese keris to the Moro kris, I have encountered two structures which I am uncertain whether they derive from original Javanese/Balinese forms or represent adaptations originating with the Moros.

The first structure relates to the representation of lambe gajah. In some older examples of Moro kris, there appears to be three lines to choose from. The uppermost line is the bottom of the gandik. Then there are two parallel lines below that on the gangya (ganja). To illustrate this point, here are two examples of old Moro kris that show this feature.

Example 1 is an old blade with a gold/brass Balinese hilt resembling a Jawa daemon. The gandik has been described as a Balinese style, being concave on its face and curving up slightly at the bottom. Note the two lines below the gandik. Ordinarily, on Moro kris, the lowest part of the gandik forms the upper lip of the lambe gajah, and a line below it on the gangya represents the lower lip.




Example 2 is a Moro blade with a Malay hilt and kakatua pommel with side panel. In this example, the gandik is more consistent with the Javanese style, having a slightly convex face and a more upright appearance. However, the same three lines are present at the base of the gandik and on the gangya.




Are you aware of similar examples found on Javanese or Balinese keris? What constitutes the lambe gajah on these two examples: is it the bottom of the gandik and the first line on the gangya, or the two lines on the gangya?

The second structure relates to what has been called the "arrowhead" and is commonly found on older Moro kris, as well as some Brunei kris. This is formed at the top of the sogokan by grooves running along each side of the sogokan that converge a short distance above it. I am unaware of this feature occurring on a Javanese or Balinese keris, and ask if anyone has seen a similar feature on a keris. Is there an indigenous name for this structure?

Here is an example of an "arrowhead" present on Example 1 above.



Further information on these two swords, including attribution, can be found in the thread, "Early" Moro Kris, posted on the Ethnographic Forum.

[A. G. Maisey]

Ian, the lines at the sirah cecak end of the gonjo do occur in some Javanese & Balinese keris, they are more common in older examples.

I cannot recall having seen any Javanese or Balinese keris that has the "arrow head" characteristic.

[A. G. Maisey]

These images might be useful.

[David]

Ian, as Alan has stated, i am not familiar with the "arrowhead" feature in Javanese or Balinese keris. But the feature might be a development based upon the gula milir, grooves that run up along either side of the sogokan and generally terminate somewhere around mid-blade or higher.
BTW, i don't think the gold/brass hilt on your first example is of Balinese origin. You don't find Jawa Demam style hilts in Bali. It is a rare type of Moro hilt.

[Sajen]

Hi Ian,

You are looking for the origin of the Philippine kris and found similarities to the Bali keris blades in comparison with early Moro kris blades which are obvious. But it's always a good choice to look not only in one direction. Regarding the hilt form from the first from your shown kris and blade similarity I would recommend the following threads:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27123
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23514
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=Warangan

Like said, it should be only a little bit food for thought.

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Alan, David, Sajen thanks for your replies. Much appreciated.

You have each confirmed my suspicion that the "arrow head" feature, as seen on the sword above, is a reasonable indicator of "Moro" origin, including Brunei and probably N. Borneo. Furthermore, it has no direct relationship to forms seen on keris, except for the grooves that run parallel to and on each side of the sogokan, and terminate rather vaguely further down the blade. I shall take the well demarcated structure of the "arrowhead" as an indication (when present) of Moro workmanship, until shown otherwise. However, the absence of an "arrowhead" does not exclude manufacture by a Moro craftsman, as we know of many examples (particularly in the 19th C and later) where Moro kris do not have this structure.

David, thank you for clarifying that demam hilts do not appear on Bali keris. My statement was based on previous discussion by Forum members in an earlier thread from 2011. Interestingly, if we turn that rare form of Moro pommel upright, it looks a bit like a precursor for the diminutive simple kakatua pommel ("beak but no "crest") seen on what I think are some of the earliest Moro kris.

[Interested Party]

Hi. I've been trying to wrap my head around the keris/kris/kalis/sundang for several years now. Thanks to everyone for their help! In regard to the arrowhead motif, it spread to Moro blades it seems. I know that many of these okir gunongs/goo'na blades are considered almost contemporary and tourist items but, I thought it interesting to consider how the arrowhead design evolved.



This item seems to show use/wear, and the blade has good patination. Look at the worn plating on the bottom of the guard. The wear made me wonder if this is its original ferrule/pommel.

Hopefully I am somewhat on target with this idea.

-IP

[Interested Party]

My apologies, I thought this thread wan in the ethnographic forum.