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#1 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,165
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Xasterix has recently posted some excellent pictures from a Spanish auction here. I have looked through the Moro kris shown in those pictures, and there is one that stands out for me as likely to be older than the others based on its features resembling the Javanese keris.
Panoply A from the Xasterix post has been copied below with the swords labeled. Number A-11 appears to be the oldest one shown in these pictures. It has many features seen on the "modern Javanese kris" which I mentioned above. In addition, the gandik is unusually tall for a Moro kris, more in keeping with some old keris, such as the 16th C keris I have referred to before. In my continuing search for "early" Moro kris, this one may have the most features in common with the Javanese keris. Interestingly, this one does not have an asang asang, and may never have had one (although the quality of the blown up pictures make it hard to tell if there was one originally). Seeing A-11 displayed with much larger, heavier, and (probably) more recent kris, with notably wider and longer blades, suggests to me that A-11 is a good candidate for a progenitor of the "modern Moro kris." I would place it earlier than 1800, and perhaps much earlier. . Last edited by Ian; 21st July 2024 at 08:02 PM. Reason: Spelling |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Another A-11
18 inch blade handle (whale's tooth pommel) 4 and seven eighths inches LOA 22 and seven eighths inches. Last edited by Rick; 22nd July 2024 at 08:07 PM. |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 640
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#4 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,726
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![]() Another one! ![]() It's 56,5 cm overall, blade alone 44,7 cm. Last edited by Sajen; 22nd July 2024 at 06:04 PM. |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
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Thanks Rick and Detlef! Two lovely examples. Can you please provide measurements for length of the blade and overall.
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#6 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
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Thanks again to Rick and Sajen for adding the dimensions of their swords to the posts above. Rick's sword is a tad bigger, with a blade that is a cm longer (45.7 vs 44.7 cm) than Sajen's, and also longer overall (58.1 cm vs 56.5 cm). Nevertheless, these are significantly smaller than 19th C examples, such as most of those shown in the picture of the panoply above. On size alone, Rick's and Sajen's swords would be considered "archaic kris." As already noted, these two swords resemble the example A-11 shown above.
Taking a closer look at the ricikin on these two swords shows some interesting features, and perhaps some important differences. Sajen's sword is on the left; Rick's sword is on the right Apart from one sword having two asang asang and the other only one, at first sight they look remarkably similar. Closer inspection shows some small differences.
Last edited by Ian; 24th July 2024 at 05:15 AM. Reason: Corrected attributions |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Looking back through the Archives of this site, I came across this most interesting example. It is very thought provoking and had been discussed here a little earlier. Pictures are provided in the later post but are very poor quality. I have spent some time working on them to better define the characteristics on the blade in particular. After more than a decade, it's probably worth reconsidering this keris/kris.
My feeling is that this is definitely a Moro blade but with a strong Balinese influence. My reason for labeling it as "Moro" is the central panel of twist core "pamor" and the presence of an "arrow head" formed by the confluence of two grooves running each side of the sogokan (circled on one of the pictures below). The resemblance of the gandik and lambe gaja to those seen on some Balinese keris was noted previously. Does anyone have an example of the "arrow head" appearing on Javanese or Balinese keris? I would like to know the indigenous name and meaning for this feature because I think it may be a good indicator of "Moro" origin. It is hard to know whether this one ever had an asang asang. There is a curious arrangement at the base of the hilt that might suggest it did, but this was not discussed previously. The relationship of the hilt to a Java daemon was discussed earlier, however. The tip of the blade appears to have been damaged, and was also commented on previously. Dimensions of the sword were not reported. . Last edited by Ian; 26th July 2024 at 01:30 AM. |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Continuing in the same theme, here is one from the sold area of the new Oriental-Arms site: Item number 15238. Artzi has labeled this one as Malay Peninsula in origin, and the style of hilt and the asang asang would support that attribution. However, I think the blade is likely Moro in origin for two reasons:
The twist core area on this sword is worthy of comment. Four separate rods have been used with a prominent chevron pattern either side of a central chevron pair. This is unusual and clearly a prestige blade--perhaps a presentation blade. A single chevron pattern is seen in example A-6 in post #8 of this thread. The indicators of substantial age are several:
As with other swords in this thread, I believe this blade predates 1800, and probably by a substantial period of time. . Last edited by Ian; 27th July 2024 at 11:42 PM. Reason: Referenced examples in post #8 of this thread |
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