European sword? eyelash stamp, victorian copy ????

[phil.reid]

Not sure about this one, thought it was vintage copy but we'll made, 108cm and well balance, good spring steel blade but thin( africa?) steel. Your thoughts appreciated

[awdaniec666]

Without diving deep into literature studies you could try to answer the following question for yourself: This seems like a thrust-centric sword, is the blade suitable for thrusting through f.e. mail or sturdy clothing?

The mark is imitating Styrian ones from the late 17th century.

[phil.reid]

No, it's well made but too much spring to pierce mail, blade and resin/ leather construction reminds me of maasai lionspear/ swords and don't think this is a Victorian copy and not quite the quality I've come across, I'm leaning towards someone with good forging skills copying Austrian/ hungarian sword and markings but I could be completely wrong.

[kronckew]

Victorian (and many modern) copies tended to be heavier, less flexible than actual period swords. And period swords were mostly hand made, and there was no attempt at perfection, they had cosmetic flaws we do not accept in our 'modern' machine world. They were made to be functional.
There are a few fairly recent videos on YouTube by well known swordsmiths and dealers regarding thrusting thru mail, and the swords were surprisingly flexed. Late period swords were not really made for penetrating armour, but for use against lesser men at arms without steel armour.


Skallagrim

[Radboud]

What material is the pommel and guard made of? Also how is the pommel attached?

My first impression of the eyelash stamp is that it is too clean, too sharp. The authentic ones I usually see aren’t as well defined as this one.

[fernando]

Do you guys have a book called ARMI BIANCHE ITALIANE ?



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[phil.reid]

Well I think whoever made this sword had this book! Good pickup Fernando! Handles aged brass and tangs been peen at v of pommel. Yep blades good quality and I'm thinking it's a vintage copy by someone who's got decent forging skills.

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent catch Fernando!!!!
Naturally following the 'too good to be true' axiom, it is hard to accurately assess this remarkable example as authentic without hands on handling, and even then there times when even the experts can be wrong. Look for example at the numbers of weapons and armor displayed for generations at the Higgjns Museum in Massachusetts.

The addition of that eyelash stamp would reveal an uncanny attention to detail not typically done by artisans creating reproductions of authentic pieces in the Victorian to modern era, at least as far as I have known. The only maker of reproductions I have known well personally, made them so well that he typically placed his own mark strategically so they would not be presented as authentic. However, many dealers unfortunately removed these for obvious reasons.

"Armi Bianche Italiene" by Boccia & Coelho (1975) is a relatively obscure book it seems IMO, among the sword collecting community. It is a huge volume, in Italian of course and from the initial release prohibitively expensive. I recall many years ago I reeled at the cost (then).
I recall a visit years ago by an author friend who was researching an Italian sword, and gasped when he saw I had this!
Naturally this volume in the hands of a skilled deceiver would be most dangerous.

If someone was fashioning a recreation for artistic or appreciation purposes, why would such a detail as the mark be necessary?
It is truly a dilemma, but most attractive example in any case.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...
"Armi Bianche Italiene" by Boccia & Coelho (1975) is a relatively obscure book it seems IMO, among the sword collecting community. It is a huge volume, in Italian of course and from the initial release prohibitively expensive. I recall many years ago I reeled at the cost (then)...

What i like most in this work is that its co-author Jorge Coelho is one of the greatest Portuguese illustrators . I was given a special edition of the book without the marks part. What i struggled to get them; again a gift .

[cornelistromp]

unfortunatly it is not Victorian but a recent reproduction or copy made by an Italian blacksmith, probably made around 2020.
I still saved a photo from Facebook

[kronckew]

Interesting, Corneli, but no marking on THAT blade. Maybe someone has a proper reference link to help prove your date comment?


I agree with Jim.

[fernando]

Well ... what do you know !

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

What i like most in this work is that its co-author Jorge Coelho is one of the greatest Portuguese illustrators . I was given a special edition of the book without the marks part. What i struggled to get them; again a gift .

I had no idea about Mr. Coelho being Portuguese, and how incredible to have a special edition of this very obscure reference (as I have noted).........your copy is a virtual treasure Fernando!

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Interesting, Corneli, but no marking on THAT blade. Maybe someone has a proper reference link to help prove your date comment?
I agree with Jim.

We’d need to see both sides of Phil’s sword before we can discount it being the same one in Cornelistromp’s photo.

On the face of it there are differences in the guard that indicate that it’s not the same sword, however if its a recent production there’s nothing to say this isn’t one of a series.

[phil.reid]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

unfortunatly it is not Victorian but a recent reproduction or copy made by an Italian blacksmith, probably made around 2020.
I still saved a photo from Facebook

I'm thinking this is same Smith, not upset as bought it under assumption it was a good copy.