Identification Assistance Requested - New Collector

Gustav · 28th November 2023, 04:27 PM

What is left of Greneng?
What is left of RonDha Nunut?
How is the condition of Singo compared to Greneng elements?
What do the results of this comparison tell us?
Is Singo adequately carved?
How are the proportions of Singo - is it iconographically correct for Bali?

At the moment I think we see an old blade here. It is possible this old blade originally had a figural Gandhik. It is even possible, that parts of the original carving are integrated in the figure we see now.

But the details of execution, the proportions of the figure, the lack of metal grain on figures thigh don't led me to think the figure, as it is now, is in the original state.

Let's see what additional images will tell us.

A. G. Maisey · 28th November 2023, 07:22 PM

Insofar as style & execution of this winged lion goes, there can be no doubt that it is Balinese work.

It could have been added to this blade some time after the blade was originally forged, or it could have been added during the forging process. One of the ways in which a figure is added to a blade is to thicken the area of blumbangan & gandhik when the rest of the blade had been forged, but the carving is not yet complete.

I have had several blades, both Balinese & Javanese where this appeared to have been done. When the blade has been thickened during the initial forging there is a discontinuity of metal grain, just as is the case when the carving has been added perhaps 100 years after the initial forge process. In fact, adding material to an old blade is a very, very difficult weld to make.

So even discontinuity of metal grain does not tell the whole story, and where age & continual cleaning in the Balinese way has resulted in a polished surface, rather than a textured surface it becomes even more difficult to form an opinion on whether a figure has been added or not.

We must bear in mind, that in Bali, blades are cleaned by polishing with powdered limestone, they are not acid cleaned as is the case in Jawa, this polishing of the blade results in raised sections of the blade acquiring a smooth finish, rather than a textured surface.

Even with an old Balinese blade in hand, & under magnification, it is extremely difficult to form a supportable opinion on just when a Balinese blade might have been altered or added to, & carved figures are not the only alteration or addition that can be made.

Gustav · 28th November 2023, 08:17 PM

I understand that this is a tricky one. Thank you, Alan, for your comment!

Regarding execution of the figure, with my limited experience I can say, that old examples I have seen mostly have been vertically elongated. This is the first time I see a wing executed in this way, perhaps I have seen these bat-like ears before, but I don't recall where - quite unusual. The cuts in metal at forelegs and turtle (?) are not smooth at all and look comparatively fresh. The very long hind legs are very unusual for an old Balinese Singo. Actually it doesn't look like a Singo to me at all.

A. G. Maisey · 29th November 2023, 01:52 AM

Gustav, what we believe we can see in something depends very much on what we have seen in the past. To me, this singa is 100% Balinese, to you it is not. I don't have any problem with this. Each carver has his own interpretations.

Gustav · 29th November 2023, 06:43 AM

Alan, that's absolutely true. My experience is limited to museum collections and old blades.

A. G. Maisey · 29th November 2023, 06:59 AM

I have not seen a lot of museum collections that feature carvings of the singa, maybe a few in the National Gallery of Australia, a few in Balinese museums, but I have nearly 60 years worth of visits to Bali, and I have seen more carvings of the singa than I could possibly count. All quality levels, all ages, numerous variations.

Gustav · 29th November 2023, 03:35 PM

Just to illustrate how big the distance is of this figure from classical Balinese Singo.

Now I remember where I did see such big and erect ears on Balinese carvings - on monkey masks.

29th November 2023, 03:35 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,238	Just to illustrate how big the distance is of this figure from classical Balinese Singo. Now I remember where I did see such big and erect ears on Balinese carvings - on monkey masks. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 29th November 2023 at 03:50 PM.

28th November 2023, 04:27 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,238	What is left of Greneng? What is left of RonDha Nunut? How is the condition of Singo compared to Greneng elements? What do the results of this comparison tell us? Is Singo adequately carved? How are the proportions of Singo - is it iconographically correct for Bali? At the moment I think we see an old blade here. It is possible this old blade originally had a figural Gandhik. It is even possible, that parts of the original carving are integrated in the figure we see now. But the details of execution, the proportions of the figure, the lack of metal grain on figures thigh don't led me to think the figure, as it is now, is in the original state. Let's see what additional images will tell us.

28th November 2023, 07:22 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	Insofar as style & execution of this winged lion goes, there can be no doubt that it is Balinese work. It could have been added to this blade some time after the blade was originally forged, or it could have been added during the forging process. One of the ways in which a figure is added to a blade is to thicken the area of blumbangan & gandhik when the rest of the blade had been forged, but the carving is not yet complete. I have had several blades, both Balinese & Javanese where this appeared to have been done. When the blade has been thickened during the initial forging there is a discontinuity of metal grain, just as is the case when the carving has been added perhaps 100 years after the initial forge process. In fact, adding material to an old blade is a very, very difficult weld to make. So even discontinuity of metal grain does not tell the whole story, and where age & continual cleaning in the Balinese way has resulted in a polished surface, rather than a textured surface it becomes even more difficult to form an opinion on whether a figure has been added or not. We must bear in mind, that in Bali, blades are cleaned by polishing with powdered limestone, they are not acid cleaned as is the case in Jawa, this polishing of the blade results in raised sections of the blade acquiring a smooth finish, rather than a textured surface. Even with an old Balinese blade in hand, & under magnification, it is extremely difficult to form a supportable opinion on just when a Balinese blade might have been altered or added to, & carved figures are not the only alteration or addition that can be made.

28th November 2023, 08:17 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,238	I understand that this is a tricky one. Thank you, Alan, for your comment! Regarding execution of the figure, with my limited experience I can say, that old examples I have seen mostly have been vertically elongated. This is the first time I see a wing executed in this way, perhaps I have seen these bat-like ears before, but I don't recall where - quite unusual. The cuts in metal at forelegs and turtle (?) are not smooth at all and look comparatively fresh. The very long hind legs are very unusual for an old Balinese Singo. Actually it doesn't look like a Singo to me at all.

29th November 2023, 01:52 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	Gustav, what we believe we can see in something depends very much on what we have seen in the past. To me, this singa is 100% Balinese, to you it is not. I don't have any problem with this. Each carver has his own interpretations.

29th November 2023, 06:43 AM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,238	Alan, that's absolutely true. My experience is limited to museum collections and old blades.

29th November 2023, 06:59 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	I have not seen a lot of museum collections that feature carvings of the singa, maybe a few in the National Gallery of Australia, a few in Balinese museums, but I have nearly 60 years worth of visits to Bali, and I have seen more carvings of the singa than I could possibly count. All quality levels, all ages, numerous variations.