Another sword; another challenge

[fernando]

Jim, thank you so much for your previous input . I will duly process it myself and after pass word to the sword owner.
Zamorane el Toledano also appears in Palomares but, as you say, not properly the same thing.

[Jim McDougall]

Fernando in seeing the nomina in larger size, I see #64 which comprises the son of the figure using 'C' and wonder if this might be a variant of the mark on the blade discussed ? Whatever the case, it is a distinctly Spanish punzone character...but unusual for less known makers mark to be used spuriously in Germany, Perhaps this blade is indeed Spanish? but then what period, as Toledo was all but defunct by late 17th c.

Could this maker have removed to Barcelona or in Basque regions nearer Bilbao? possible.Notable mounting of blades (typically Toledo of course) was done in towns near Bilbao, which was the departure port for finished swords and the reason these types of swords with such guard systems became colloquially known as 'bilbos'.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Fernando in seeing the nomina in larger size, I see #64 which comprises the son of the figure using 'C' and wonder if this might be a variant of the mark on the blade discussed ?...

I guess i am skeptical over that probability, Jim. But i wouldn't discard the spurious possiblity !

[Victrix]

I think I’ve seen that lattice and plume pattern on Hungarian blades. The blade is for a sabre yet it’s attached to a Spanish bilbo hilt. Maybe the blade even has a false edge at the backside end of the tip?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Victrix

I think I’ve seen that lattice and plume pattern on Hungarian blades. The blade is for a sabre yet it’s attached to a Spanish bilbo hilt. Maybe the blade even has a false edge at the backside end of the tip?

This is SPOT ON!
That style of blade decoration is indeed well known in Eastern Europe, and most notably on Hungarian blades, where I believe it may have to do with these kinds of occult esoterica known as 'the Transylvanian knot'. While exactly which device or motif this applies to, the entwined lattice type decoration may well pertain to a 'knot' in effect, perhaps referring to the esoteric decoration collectively.

Fernando, totally agree with the skeptical reference, and as always with spuriously applied devices and marks, pretty much anything is possible.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I believe it may have to do with these kinds of occult esoterica known as 'the Transylvanian knot'. While exactly which device or motif this applies to, the entwined lattice type decoration may well pertain to a 'knot' in effect, perhaps referring to the esoteric decoration collectively.

Back in university while researching something else I remember reading about knotwork being protection spells in western Europe. I am sorry that I have absolutely no recollection of the source.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Back in university while researching something else I remember reading about knotwork being protection spells in western Europe. I am sorry that I have absolutely no recollection of the source.

A pity !

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Victrix

I think I’ve seen that lattice and plume pattern on Hungarian blades. The blade is for a sabre yet it’s attached to a Spanish bilbo hilt. Maybe the blade even has a false edge at the backside end of the tip?

Thank you for your input, Victrix.
I am waiting for the owners confirmation on the sabre false edge; but i think you are certainly right. Actually i have handled this sword the other day, but i missed to check that part.

[fernando]

Thank you Jim, for the additional notes on the blade characteristics .

[fernando]

Originally Posted by fernando

Thank you for your input, Victrix.
I am waiting for the owners confirmation on the sabre false edge; but i think you are certainly right...

Yes, the owner has just confirmed that the blade last section has both sides sharp.



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