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28th November 2023, 02:48 AM | #1 |
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This is a total anomaly, and in risking a totally speculative assessment, the thing I think of is a Spanish 'pappenheimer' type weapon with saber blade which seems to be perhaps Styrian or S.German (by the fullering, decoration). This would be of course mid 17th c. contemporary with Pappenheimers as well as Spanish cup hilts, shell guards (margarite).
Perhaps this might have some connection to Spanish Netherlands ? (1556-1714). The punzone on the tang does not appear in Palomares*, but is Spanish in manner. In Kinman ("European Makers of Edged Weapons, Their Marks", 2015), p.142, a similar mark with C under crown in dotted cartouche is shown as Zamorane el Toledano, noted pre-1700. This mark is the crowned C, but with what seems an S (?) enclosed. This could be a spurious 'Toledo' mark as used of course in Germany (Solingen and Munich) and this blade seems 18th c. . In Wallace Collection (Mann, 1962) there are numerous cases of older hilts mounted with later blades, so these kinds of pairings are far from unknown. I have a 1750-60s British basket hilt which was infantry used, but in 1783 they stopped carrying swords. The swords went into stores. At some point later my example was refitted from the straight blade to a M1788 light cavalry saber blade....I have seen two others with this modification. It is hard to say what would prompt these changes, but personal favor or heirloom hilt to a more contemporary blade would seem plausible. * corrected, the mark does appear in Palomares #94 Last edited by Jim McDougall; 28th November 2023 at 02:26 PM. |
28th November 2023, 02:59 AM | #2 |
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Palomares nomina? What is the complete name for this work?
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28th November 2023, 11:15 AM | #3 | |
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28th November 2023, 11:19 AM | #4 |
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Jim, thank you so much for your previous input . I will duly process it myself and after pass word to the sword owner.
Zamorane el Toledano also appears in Palomares but, as you say, not properly the same thing. |
28th November 2023, 02:21 PM | #5 |
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Fernando in seeing the nomina in larger size, I see #64 which comprises the son of the figure using 'C' and wonder if this might be a variant of the mark on the blade discussed ? Whatever the case, it is a distinctly Spanish punzone character...but unusual for less known makers mark to be used spuriously in Germany, Perhaps this blade is indeed Spanish? but then what period, as Toledo was all but defunct by late 17th c.
Could this maker have removed to Barcelona or in Basque regions nearer Bilbao? possible.Notable mounting of blades (typically Toledo of course) was done in towns near Bilbao, which was the departure port for finished swords and the reason these types of swords with such guard systems became colloquially known as 'bilbos'. |
28th November 2023, 05:24 PM | #6 |
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I guess i am skeptical over that probability, Jim. But i wouldn't discard the spurious possiblity !
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29th November 2023, 07:57 PM | #7 |
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I think I’ve seen that lattice and plume pattern on Hungarian blades. The blade is for a sabre yet it’s attached to a Spanish bilbo hilt. Maybe the blade even has a false edge at the backside end of the tip?
Last edited by Victrix; 29th November 2023 at 07:59 PM. Reason: added bit at end |
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