Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th October 2023, 05:41 PM   #1
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default rifle

It's African?
thanks
Attached Images
      
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2023, 07:34 PM   #2
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,620
Default

Looks like a very nice and rare early Ottoman matchlock to me. Congratulations
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2023, 08:03 PM   #3
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Very nice piece, Galvano .
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2023, 10:31 AM   #4
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default rifle

Hello
Thank you, but how old is he?
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st October 2023, 03:28 AM   #5
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by galvano View Post
Hello
Thank you, but how old is he?
Good question, and one that is not so easy to answer. Per Elgood, it appears the Ottomans adopted the miquelet lock sometime in the 17th century. According to North, the characteristic form of the stock butt was also developed around the same time, early 17th century. Finally, a little book published by the Royal Armories shows an Ottoman matchlock gun, formerly in the Tirri collection and dates it to the 17th century.

So my guess is 1600s.
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2023, 12:19 PM   #6
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default rifle

thanks for your answer, but is it that old?
I think I see in oxidation a damascus cannon !
galvano

That's for sure, it is a complex damascus

Last edited by galvano; 23rd October 2023 at 04:19 PM.
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2023, 05:14 PM   #7
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default rifle damascus

new photo
Attached Images
     
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2023, 06:52 PM   #8
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,620
Default

Yes, beautiful damascus barrel, just a very nice gun overall. As for the age, I gave my guess based on what I know, though I am most certainly not an expert. Ottoman matchlocks are not common, as as a result collectors are not as familiar with them as with miquelet lock guns. This is why others may not have responded yet.
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2023, 09:17 PM   #9
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default gilding

I discovered 2 marks in the gilding
I'm going to put pictures tomorrow
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2023, 10:52 AM   #10
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default pictures

marks
Attached Images
    
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2023, 03:29 PM   #11
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default

On the web it would date around 1750
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2023, 01:49 PM   #12
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default

Hello,
what can be this green material embedded in the wood of the stock?
thanks
galvano
Attached Images
  
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2023, 04:04 PM   #13
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,620
Default

It is most likely ivory that has been dyed green.
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2023, 05:36 PM   #14
gp
Member
 
gp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 717
Default

Looks like a Balkan Džeferdar, could be former Yugoslavia.
The green colour is indeed a form of dyeing of bone, wood, ivory also often applied to bichaqs

see also:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28416

Last edited by gp; 15th November 2023 at 06:14 PM.
gp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2023, 10:35 AM   #15
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default inlays

Thank you for your feedback,
the white inlays are made of bone, can the green ones also be made of bone?
thanks
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2023, 04:00 PM   #16
gp
Member
 
gp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 717
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by galvano View Post
Thank you for your feedback,
the white inlays are made of bone, can the green ones also be made of bone?
thanks
I can’t confirm concerning this rifle: I need to see and feel it to be sure. But it does look very much like it
But talking bichaqs, they are indeed all bone dyed green: this is the case with all of my green ones. You can check the pictures

And also cutlery
Attached Images
   

Last edited by gp; 16th November 2023 at 05:57 PM.
gp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2023, 11:17 AM   #17
bobi13
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 25
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by galvano View Post
Thank you for your feedback,
the white inlays are made of bone, can the green ones also be made of bone?
thanks

The green ones are camel bone, I make them for my restorations.
bobi13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2023, 08:31 PM   #18
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,623
Default

Hi Galvano

It appears you indeed have a very nice example of one of the few "Ottoman" matchlocks. Congratulations. Would be well worth cleaning the loose, red rust from the iron parts. You can use simple old style gun oil and 0000 steel wool. Taking the barrel off will make cleaning much easier.

The Ottomans must have used thousands of matchlocks during the period. But generally speaking, there are very few examples remaining today. While, as mentioned above, there are many remaining flintlock/miquelet lock examples available today. The reason for the lack of matchlock examples remains a mystery. Some believe that large arsenals in the Region were destroyed at some early point, with the matchlocks included. Perhaps.

Hope you decide to do a little cleaning/restoration for this gun. Would be well worth it. It's a very high quality piece.

Rick

I believe the green is the Muslim religious color.
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2023, 10:39 AM   #19
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default restoration

Thank you for your very interesting feedback.
Of course I'm going to restore it, taking care not to damage anything
galvano
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2024, 01:23 PM   #20
galvano
Member
 
galvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by galvano View Post
Hello,
what can be this green material embedded in the wood of the stock?
thanks
galvano
it is green throughout the thickness
galvano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2024, 10:56 PM   #21
David R
Member
 
David R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,079
Default

The Ottomans must have used thousands of matchlocks during the period. But generally speaking, there are very few examples remaining today....

Probably upgraded to later style locks. as was common throughout the world. Match to wheel, wheel to miquelet, to percussion... and in Japan, matchlock to bolt action!
David R is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.