Too crude to be a Machete ?

fernando · 10th November 2023, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... I always recall hearing of one of the most highly respected of the early collector/scholars, Sir Guy Laking, of whom it was said,"...he would always find something kind to say about a fellow collectors object, however humble it was". .

Absolutely Jim; a commendable attitude. I am sure Sir Laking was a sensitive person and had a fine way to do it; in a sincere but not exalting mode ... and in an innocuous manner concerning others in the room.

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Interested Party · 11th November 2023, 07:47 PM

Kronckew's lower example's handle is vaguely reminiscent of the machete in post Spanish(?) Machete Sword with horn grips.

As far as this post's original example goes, I have been perplexed by what looks like a small diameter piece of pipe welded to the blade as a tang or uncomfortable handle. Even weirder is the apparent split down the back if the blade?? Is this iron forge welded around the steel edge with the line being a cold shut welding flaw? I have looked at this every day and just scratch my head. I've seen a lot of homemade agricultural knives for different crops and uses. This one is an interesting and unique curio.

We seem to be developing a machete data base in this forum as of late.

fernando · 12th November 2023, 10:33 AM

I don't have the luggage to exchange ideas on the handle fixation nor on the blade forging method, but i see that the handle length (only) fits a small grip like mine. It could be that this was the only piece of pipe the owner (smith) had at hand. I did post the blade split picture in purpose to call attention, but only now i notice that this happens in both sides, as both forte edges have the same thickness in the first third section.

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Jim McDougall · 12th November 2023, 04:44 PM

Many scythes, and 'clearing' or cropping implements had hafts, thus were mounted on these or perhaps even longer, in the manner of pole arms.
Recalling the idiom, 'swords into plough shares' which reflects the cases of weapon into tool, or clearly vice versa, as glaives, bill hooks and the like.

Whatever the case with this item, it is fascinating for its rustic character and clearly obvious age, its 'mystery' not withstanding.

The handle is perhaps not viable for most modern hands, if indeed this was the intent, but overall the hands of individuals centuries ago much as their physical size and structure was generally smaller. However, the 'socket' idea seems quite plausible.

fernando · 12th November 2023, 06:35 PM

I can see what you mean, Jim. However i doubt that this thing once had a haft. The handle has an elliptical cross section, the usual shape of a grip, and it doesn't look like it has been previously round, like for a socket. Nor could its diameter fit one ... i would say.

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Interested Party · 12th November 2023, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I can see what you mean, Jim. However i doubt that this thing once had a haft. The handle has an elliptical cross section, the usual shape of a grip, and it doesn't look like it has been previously round, like for a socket. Nor could its diameter fit one ... i would say.

.

I had wondered if it had 7-15cm of an extension, but probably not.

Was this item buried at one time?

fernando · 13th November 2023, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

... I had wondered if it had 7-15cm of an extension, but probably not...

Some kind of ... not impossible. But i guess we will never know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

... this item buried at one time? ...

That also remains a mistery. I bought it in the local street fair several years ago. I didn't even recall that it was me who took it for rust cleaning, but today i found old pictures of it in my files. Perhaps such cleaning wasn't a good idea; the person who did it uses a bench polisher. But i reckon the rust cover was critical. I wonder that, instead of having been buried, it was only exposed to wheather for a rather long period. Could you judge on that looking at such pictures ?

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Jim McDougall · 12th November 2023, 08:41 PM

I see what you mean, and I hadnt noticed the elliptical shape. As a rather crudely formed blacksmith work, as you note the flatter shape rather than round would seem more suited as a 'handle'. Certainly is a conundrum, and an intriguing one.

12th November 2023, 10:33 AM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I don't have the luggage to exchange ideas on the handle fixation nor on the blade forging method, but i see that the handle length (only) fits a small grip like mine. It could be that this was the only piece of pipe the owner (smith) had at hand. I did post the blade split picture in purpose to call attention, but only now i notice that this happens in both sides, as both forte edges have the same thickness in the first third section. - Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 12th November 2023 at 12:01 PM.

12th November 2023, 06:35 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I can see what you mean, Jim. However i doubt that this thing once had a haft. The handle has an elliptical cross section, the usual shape of a grip, and it doesn't look like it has been previously round, like for a socket. Nor could its diameter fit one ... i would say. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 12th November 2023 at 06:58 PM.

11th November 2023, 07:47 PM	#2
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 436	Kronckew's lower example's handle is vaguely reminiscent of the machete in post *Spanish(?) Machete Sword with horn grips*. As far as this post's original example goes, I have been perplexed by what looks like a small diameter piece of pipe welded to the blade as a tang or uncomfortable handle. Even weirder is the apparent split down the back if the blade?? Is this iron forge welded around the steel edge with the line being a cold shut welding flaw? I have looked at this every day and just scratch my head. I've seen a lot of homemade agricultural knives for different crops and uses. This one is an interesting and unique curio. We seem to be developing a machete data base in this forum as of late.

12th November 2023, 04:44 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	Many scythes, and 'clearing' or cropping implements had hafts, thus were mounted on these or perhaps even longer, in the manner of pole arms. Recalling the idiom, 'swords into plough shares' which reflects the cases of weapon into tool, or clearly vice versa, as glaives, bill hooks and the like. Whatever the case with this item, it is fascinating for its rustic character and clearly obvious age, its 'mystery' not withstanding. The handle is perhaps not viable for most modern hands, if indeed this was the intent, but overall the hands of individuals centuries ago much as their physical size and structure was generally smaller. However, the 'socket' idea seems quite plausible.

12th November 2023, 08:41 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	I see what you mean, and I hadnt noticed the elliptical shape. As a rather crudely formed blacksmith work, as you note the flatter shape rather than round would seem more suited as a 'handle'. Certainly is a conundrum, and an intriguing one.