THE BORDER REIVERS.

urbanspaceman · 31st October 2023, 01:17 PM

This stimulates another related issue regarding what I always considered a Hounslow hangar that has ANNO 1553 on both sides of the blade (see attached).
This figure relates to the date of our briefest reigning monarch: Lady Jane, just 16 years old when she inherited the throne, reigning for only 9 days before being executed within the year.
I thought the style of sword and blade was typical of Hounslow and the numbers on the blade talismanic (although the word ANNO does rather contradict that) but perhaps this is not the case... any input here would be greatly appreciated.

fernando · 31st October 2023, 01:41 PM

I would say definitely not talismanic nor cabalistic. It might not necessarily be the date the blade was forged, but most certainly a tribute to the ephemeral Queen.

urbanspaceman · 31st October 2023, 03:02 PM

Hello Fernando.
Thank-you, yes, we are in agreement.

Jim McDougall · 1st November 2023, 01:18 AM

Im late in on this, but most interesting. The 'whinger' term is as suggested a variation of the 'hanger' term if have understood most references, with terms for these types of swords sometimes being 'cutlass' as well.

The type swords with these distinct style hilts with pommel cap, a downturned counter guard, knuckleguard etc seem to have been an English form of 1640s, perhaps slightly earlier and used well through the century. Some references have classified somewhat later examples (Hounslow effectively ended around mid 17thc) as of 'Hounslow school'.

This is my example, it is noted that Hounslow often produced these with serrated back edge for maritime use...note the distal third of the blade resembles the other blade posted (Peter, your #71), also slightly wider. ..also the familiar 'running wolf' suggesting numbers of blades indeed were coming in from Solingen.
The story of the German smiths who came to England at the beckon of the King used the running wolf spitefully toward their Solingen guilds, but it seems not the case, and many of them signed their blades with Anglicized names.

With the ANNO 1553, this numeric combination does not seem to correspond to the talismanic combinations typically known, and the 'anno' term, as noted would defeat such suggestion. However with the Solingen running wolf, and upside down in the proper Solingen convention, this seems likely another spurious Solingen combination, and not surprising to be seen in Hounslow context.

urbanspaceman · 1st November 2023, 10:25 AM

I think I should start another thread regarding the history of this distinctive and unique hilt as we are moving away from the Border Reivers.

31st October 2023, 01:17 PM	#1
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 530	cont. This stimulates another related issue regarding what I always considered a Hounslow hangar that has ANNO 1553 on both sides of the blade (see attached). This figure relates to the date of our briefest reigning monarch: Lady Jane, just 16 years old when she inherited the throne, reigning for only 9 days before being executed within the year. I thought the style of sword and blade was typical of Hounslow and the numbers on the blade talismanic (although the word ANNO does rather contradict that) but perhaps this is not the case... any input here would be greatly appreciated. Attached Images

31st October 2023, 01:41 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A guess ... I would say definitely not talismanic nor cabalistic. It might not necessarily be the date the blade was forged, but most certainly a tribute to the ephemeral Queen.

31st October 2023, 03:02 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 530	Hangar Hello Fernando. Thank-you, yes, we are in agreement.

1st November 2023, 01:18 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	Im late in on this, but most interesting. The 'whinger' term is as suggested a variation of the 'hanger' term if have understood most references, with terms for these types of swords sometimes being 'cutlass' as well. The type swords with these distinct style hilts with pommel cap, a downturned counter guard, knuckleguard etc seem to have been an English form of 1640s, perhaps slightly earlier and used well through the century. Some references have classified somewhat later examples (Hounslow effectively ended around mid 17thc) as of 'Hounslow school'. This is my example, it is noted that Hounslow often produced these with serrated back edge for maritime use...note the distal third of the blade resembles the other blade posted (Peter, your #71), also slightly wider. ..also the familiar 'running wolf' suggesting numbers of blades indeed were coming in from Solingen. The story of the German smiths who came to England at the beckon of the King used the running wolf spitefully toward their Solingen guilds, but it seems not the case, and many of them signed their blades with Anglicized names. With the ANNO 1553, this numeric combination does not seem to correspond to the talismanic combinations typically known, and the 'anno' term, as noted would defeat such suggestion. However with the Solingen running wolf, and upside down in the proper Solingen convention, this seems likely another spurious Solingen combination, and not surprising to be seen in Hounslow context. Attached Images

1st November 2023, 10:25 AM	#5
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 530	Hilt I think I should start another thread regarding the history of this distinctive and unique hilt as we are moving away from the Border Reivers.