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17th September 2023, 06:36 AM | #1 |
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Solved?
So, a long long road digging, looking, reading, speaking with others and today this presents whilst researching a Kampilan.... there mostly goes my Sulu origin thoughts about the hulu....
First, another old thread of Alberts unique Chevron Kris dressed in the same manner as the metal hilted one he has. LUCKY and diligent Chap! http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=piang Albert's other stunner http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2661 Battara's Datu Piang Kris http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=piang One Gustav discussed a while ago. One Chris had I believe. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13785 The golden one I was lucky enough to obtain. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=68 A photo of Datu Piang, from the University of WI I believe. A couple of zoom details clearly showing his entourage both wearing and bearing Kris with this hilt type. SO, with consideration to the Holstein Sulu example, and others of the similar type, found in other materials, provenanced to the Sulu and Sulu coastal areas of Borneo... what's the relationship regionally and historically. I understand the Maguindanao people are spread far and wide. It is the common thread of timeline of this design influence that intrigues me. PS, THAT whalebone Kampilan and the stunning scabbard with carry handle may need it's own thread! Simply stunning.... Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 17th September 2023 at 07:21 AM. |
18th September 2023, 12:24 PM | #2 |
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Gavin,
I think the gentleman front and center in your picture is Datu Ali (genuine Maguindanao royalty), while Piang was a commoner (albeit very powerful). In which case, most of the retinue probably belong to Ali. Technically, Piang was subordinate to Ali (hence Ali in the center of this picture). I recall reading somewhere (maybe 20 years ago) that the Maguindanao Sultanate was closely linked to the Brunei Sultanate in the late 19th/early 20th C.. Last edited by Ian; 18th September 2023 at 12:35 PM. |
18th September 2023, 12:35 PM | #3 | |
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Ali dies before this photo was taken. https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpress...&brand=ucpress https://maguindanaopride.wordpress.com/tag/datu/ Certainly looks like Datu Piang to me. One of his known personal Kris is also being carried in the image. The sheer depth and breadth of trade Datu Piang conducted throughout the the entire Sulu via trade merchants was vast... recent reading about the power and influence, tied with maritime entities and loyalties he had, could very well explain why these hulu are found as far and wide as they are. Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 18th September 2023 at 01:53 PM. |
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18th September 2023, 07:22 PM | #4 |
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I have to agree with Gavin on this one Ian. That does not look like Datu Ali (see pic below) in the center and since he had been dead for 9 years when that photo was apparently taken (1914) it couldn't be him.
BTW, that looks like an entourage not to be trifled with. |
22nd September 2023, 02:11 AM | #5 | |
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25th September 2023, 02:07 AM | #6 | |
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I've some speculation about the young figures front and centre. Datu Piang had many children to many wives. Data I suspect can be inaccurate, but within reason. I read that he had 19 wives & 34 children, although only a few reached any prominence. Those young men front and centre could be family, as was the norm within Datu circles to appoint family, and provide with rank and title. Given that the youth to the left, within the photo above, carries a kris with same hulu design as the Kris being carried by the sword bearer, I suspect he is very close to Datu Piang. When I look at one of the better known image of Datu Piang from 1899, and the young boys brought forth for the photo, clothed as Datu Piang is, and a third child behind Datu Piang, it could be these two boys later in life who are pictured in the group. The gent to the far right could be Datu Piang's Pandita??? |
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25th September 2023, 06:33 AM | #7 |
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Thanks Gavin. The handsome guy next to Piang, the officer (?) with the moustache, looks like J.J. Pershing who took up his post in Mindanao in the second half of 1899.
Last edited by Ian; 25th September 2023 at 06:45 AM. |
25th September 2023, 03:04 PM | #8 |
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The other interesting thing is Piang was well known for gifting all sorts of things, including weapons, from Lantaka to knives depending on the rank or importance of the US Officer. Could the double lantaka under Piang's foot is one such gift.
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garuda kris |
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