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4th September 2023, 05:29 PM | #1 |
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Another popped up on social media recently, though to drop it in here.
Does anyone know the significance of the three binding rings around the base, waist and shoulders of these? |
5th September 2023, 06:49 AM | #2 |
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A previous thread
A previous thread relating to one of the first in this thread presented here for discussion.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4443 Seems a long time member previously owned it. I'm definitely on board with Michael's Sabah assessment. These continue to be discussed offline where more ideas and data are passed about. I see them thus far as Labuan influenced too when looking at the top motif on the crown, it is a reoccuring theme from the region, just as that design is also seen in Sabah weaving too. Some aspects of the motifs are seen in old Bugis drawings and carving which make sense given the large sea faring nation and the Maritime Silk Road running through Indonesia and SEA, but overall the style is unique. Brunei being the longest power base behind the regions and the English disruptions in the 19th century, it makes sense when seeing these on both sides of the fence so to speak, as I believe there are a couple that saw service under the British navy, and others, as noted at the start of this thread as being taken from Sulu pirates on the Sabah coast lines by Naval staff on various vessels |
12th September 2023, 05:33 PM | #3 |
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Well, i hate to sound so mundane, aside from their beauty, aren't they functional, for a better grip on the hilt?
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13th September 2023, 08:36 AM | #4 |
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13th September 2023, 09:59 AM | #5 |
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Thanks Gents.
I can appreciate this given space between 4 fingers, and be swayed to consider this but when you consider examples such as this; http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=13 There is no practical application like grip enhancement? And this one in Kino's collection, does the odd spacing really provide that much of a better grip when the hooked pommel provides just as much? Idle thoughts thrown out for discussion..... |
17th September 2023, 06:36 AM | #6 |
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Solved?
So, a long long road digging, looking, reading, speaking with others and today this presents whilst researching a Kampilan.... there mostly goes my Sulu origin thoughts about the hulu....
First, another old thread of Alberts unique Chevron Kris dressed in the same manner as the metal hilted one he has. LUCKY and diligent Chap! http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=piang Albert's other stunner http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2661 Battara's Datu Piang Kris http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=piang One Gustav discussed a while ago. One Chris had I believe. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13785 The golden one I was lucky enough to obtain. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=68 A photo of Datu Piang, from the University of WI I believe. A couple of zoom details clearly showing his entourage both wearing and bearing Kris with this hilt type. SO, with consideration to the Holstein Sulu example, and others of the similar type, found in other materials, provenanced to the Sulu and Sulu coastal areas of Borneo... what's the relationship regionally and historically. I understand the Maguindanao people are spread far and wide. It is the common thread of timeline of this design influence that intrigues me. PS, THAT whalebone Kampilan and the stunning scabbard with carry handle may need it's own thread! Simply stunning.... Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 17th September 2023 at 07:21 AM. |
18th September 2023, 12:24 PM | #7 |
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Gavin,
I think the gentleman front and center in your picture is Datu Ali (genuine Maguindanao royalty), while Piang was a commoner (albeit very powerful). In which case, most of the retinue probably belong to Ali. Technically, Piang was subordinate to Ali (hence Ali in the center of this picture). I recall reading somewhere (maybe 20 years ago) that the Maguindanao Sultanate was closely linked to the Brunei Sultanate in the late 19th/early 20th C.. Last edited by Ian; 18th September 2023 at 12:35 PM. |
18th September 2023, 12:35 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
Ali dies before this photo was taken. https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpress...&brand=ucpress https://maguindanaopride.wordpress.com/tag/datu/ Certainly looks like Datu Piang to me. One of his known personal Kris is also being carried in the image. The sheer depth and breadth of trade Datu Piang conducted throughout the the entire Sulu via trade merchants was vast... recent reading about the power and influence, tied with maritime entities and loyalties he had, could very well explain why these hulu are found as far and wide as they are. Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 18th September 2023 at 01:53 PM. |
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garuda kris |
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