Georgian Midshipman Dirk

[Kmaddock]

Hi All,
I just got this little fella.

Lovely Georgian Midshipman Dirk, (British Navy) in original scabbard.
I taught it was something else when I purchased it in a job lot of mixed knives but I am happy for what it is.

Seem to be a lot of variation on these but included here for reference.
Overall 27 CM with blade of 18CM.

Scabbard leather in perfect condition with brass fittings.

Grip is ivory or bone and again in v good condition and nicely coloured, gilding remains on the brass on guard and other components of the handle.

Initials on the top of grip but I cant really make them out.

Made for very small hands but as midshipmen would have joined up at the age of 12 or so, this seems plausible.

Hope you like it, I do anyway.

Regards,

Ken

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Grip is ivory or bone and again in v good condition and nicely coloured, gilding remains on the brass on guard and other components of the handle.

Hello Ken,

Beautiful Naval dirk! Handle looks like bone or antler to my eyes!

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Hope you like it, I do anyway.

Me too!

Regards,
Detlef

[M ELEY]

Great find, Ken! A really beautiful example of one of these! Could certainly be bone, but also ivory with a honey patina (this little guy probably dates 1790's-1805, Nelson's era.) Heck, some of these are made from walrus tusk, but I'd wager ivory...

[Raf]

I remember reading somewhere that late 18 th century hilts often used mammoth ivory. Don't know how you tell the difference.

[Richard G]

Yes, mammoth ivory.
Definitely mammoth ivory.
So much simpler.
In UK anyway.

Best wishes
Richard

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Raf

I remember reading somewhere that late 18 th century hilts often used mammoth ivory. Don't know how you tell the difference.

The angle of the lines on the end grain.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Yes, mammoth ivory.
Definitely mammoth ivory.
So much simpler.
In UK anyway.

Best wishes
Richard

You’ll want to double check that, I’m not 100% certain but I believe they extended the ban to mammoth ivory because it was too difficult to distinguish some of it.

[Raf]

Left is mammoth right is elephant

[Jim McDougall]

This is a breathtaking example of the form, most unusual and fascinating in its simple and elegant styling. While it is clearly naval, it rings 'Highland' in my view with its leaning toward the elemental character of the Scottish dirk with the cylindrical styling present. Though not exact of course, it just seems so to me.

It is surely 'age of sail' period, likely Napoleonic, and reflects the kind of ingenuity of the weapons privately commissioned by officers. The dirk was of course a very personal weapon, and carried important symbolic value to the individual.
The naval dirk, though not directly associated with the Scottish dirk, was still closely aligned in these kinds of cases with the wide personalized variation.

There is important history with the Scottish dirk which is intriguing as to why this was such an important weapon. After the proscription of 'weapons' during and after the Jacobite rebellions, the dirk was exempted, and with a most unusual reason.
The strong personal attachment to a Highlander's dirk included profound superstitions ,often related to the same 'magical' superstitions imbued in the German blades of the swords. These circumstances had the swearing of oaths on the dirk held sacrosanct to the point of fear of supernatural retribution if broken, and this was of course used to advantage by British authorities.

While a bit off course, just wanted to add that bit of information which I hope might add to the historic dynamics potentially aligned with this beautiful dirk.

I note the initals in silver rondel on the pommel,which further reminds me of Scottish character.

Raf, thank you so much for the illustration of the identification means with differences in ivory types, and the technical term for these lines (Schreger lines). I had never heard of these as I have not studied much on these materials, so I feel very much enlightened on these forensics! I am inclined to agree with Capn Mark on the period of this dirk, and wonder if perhaps narwhal ivory might have been used as well as walrus. Im not sure of the availability of mammoth ivory, especially then, but seems that these maritime animals components might be more likely.

[Kmaddock]

Thanks all for your considered responses

re the material of the handle.
I wont be selling this little chap so material is not that important to me but it is one of the nicer pieces I have added to the collection this year.

It was mixed in with a lot of other knives but the dirk and the Tanto are the special ones to me.

I have discussed the Tanto on another forum and it is from the early 1500's so 2 v nice items from one auction buy.

Here is a shot of all the items together some nice Navaja's a Scandinavian knife an Irish made bowie which is not that common, a Brazilian knife and an unusual bone handled folder.

The Navajas all look to have good age and the larger 2 are over 30 CM when opened out

I took a gamble on the lot and won as I was uncertain as to what Midshipmans dirk was and the Tanto was just a shot in the dark but it is tang named and 100% correct and in great condition.

Picture of the rest of the items from the job lot attached.

Regards to all,

Ken

[Richard G]

Originally Posted by Radboud

You’ll want to double check that, I’m not 100% certain but I believe they extended the ban to mammoth ivory because it was too difficult to distinguish some of it.

Not yet, but it's definitely on the cards. Basically all ivory, marine, hippo, warthog, etc.
The difficulty in distinguishing elephant from mammoth ivory is not only a problem for the regulators but also, I think, for the collector or curator.
There was a recognised trade in mammoth ivory from Scandinavian and Russian bogs into the UK and I think it is probable many artifacts assumed to be African ivory are in fact mammoth.
Best wishes
Richard

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

... Initials on the top of grip but I cant really make them out...

The so called Old English Text font. The initial on the left would be a T and the one on the right .... a C ? .


.

[GIO]

It was mixed in with a lot of other knives but the dirk and the Tanto are the special ones to me..

I have discussed the Tanto on another forum and it is from the early 1500's so 2 v nice items from one auction buy.


Ken[/QUOTE]


Hi Ken
Very nice lot, and compliments for the two "jewels". Am I wrong or the tsuka of the tanto is in reverse position ?
Best regards Gio

[Kmaddock]

Hi Gio,
No it is correctly made and assembles this way, looks uncomfortable but actually fits into the hand OK.
Regards
Ken