Ottoman/Albanian Khanjar scabbard markings

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by TVV

Very logical approach, but it ignores the cultural context entirely. Apart from the location of where something was produced or assembled, the cultural context matters.

I am attaching an example. The weapon in the attached photo derives from the Italian storta, especially in terms of the blade and the guard. The blade itself was made in Europe, quite possibly Italy as well or Central Europe. It is hard to say who fashioned the grip, which is decorated in Ottoman style. If I had to make an educated guess, a descendant of Jewish migrants from Iberia seems like a plausible option. Its intended user was almost certainly a corsair of either Turkish origins or a Dutch or English renegade.

If we follow your approach, then this is really an Italian cutlass or an Italian/Ottoman hybrid. And yet, Eric Claude would call this an Algerian nimcha, even though apart from being assembled in Algeria, its parts, makers and users were not Algerian per se. He does so because these nimchas were regionally specific to Algeria, where they were used by corsairs operating out of Algerian ports.

When I refer to a weapon as Albanian or Sudanese or Viking, it is a cultural and regional attribution rather than a claim on ethnic origins. The latter is usually very difficult to lay an absolute claim on anyway.

What you are saying only validates my point.

You call this an ALGERIAN NIMCHA precisely because it has some very distinctive features of an Algerian nimcha... while it might have been assembled in Morocco or in Egypt, or in Malta. Yet you clasify it based on the clear distinctive features. Same way a yataghan that has all the features of a Turkish yataghan is still a Turkish yataghan even if it was assembled in Bosnia.

However, if the yataghan displays some distinctive features that sets it apart from the mainland Turkish yataghans, like a characteristic front bolster and pommel or some specific decorations, then it can be considered as a Greek/Bosnian yataghan.

[Ian]

Gentlemen,

Let me offer an analogy from a completely different and modern perspective. In Australia we no longer manufacture automobiles, pickups, or trucks. However, we do assemble vehicles from parts imported from overseas. Until recently, we had a venerable old Australian car company called Holden. For the last 20 years or so it has imported parts from Japanese manufacturers and assembled the vehicles in Australia, and branded them as Holdens, and therefore Australian vehicles (not Japanese). However, some of those same Japanese carmakers exported fully assembled vehicles to Australia and sold them here under their own brand name. Exactly the same vehicles but two different companies, one Australian and one Japanese.

Elsewhere, local assembly outside the country of origin can add certain "preferred local options," and might even create its own industry to manufacture a new version, imitating the original and eventually achieving comparable quality. In time the original form becomes rebranded as a local product.

It happens a lot. Can we not have the same scenario with swords?

Whatever designation is given depends on who is talking. Australian/Japanese? Turkish/Armenian?

If an Armenian insists his yataghan is an Armenian sword, I'm not going to argue with him. It's his sword. So I'm happy to say that an Armenian adaptation of an Ottoman yataghan or kilij is an Armenian sword when it has been made or assembled in Armenia and used by an Armenian. Just as I'm happy to drive my Australian Holden Colorado pick-up that was assembled in Australia.