Mark on blade .....who knows it..

[Akanthus]

Since several years i have a sword in my little collection ,whose blade marking i haven't seen yet.I bought it as a side sword around 1600.It is rather heavy but good ballanced.The hilt is rapierlike, but for a rapier the sword is too massive.I think it's a weapon for a mounted soldier ,very similar to those Jacob de Gheyn showed on his copper engraving.We call it Reitschwert ( Ridingsword ) in Germany.The blade shows the same marks on each side.There is the Passau ( Solingen ) Wolf which differs a bit and looks for me rather like a chamäleon.Certainly the wolf is engraved by hand and not stamped ,therefore the little differences in appearance.Then you find a cross,which was gladly used in Solingen.As third decoration there is a head in frontal view,which for me is a moor’s head and which certainly is the makers mark.These heads are known from Solingen blade makers of 16th.and 17th. century , like Beugel,Munsten and others.Also in Toledo they used these marks.But all the marks i know show the profile of the head,none the frontal view.Does anybody know the mark on my sword and the name of the maker of the blade ?

[kronckew]

The running wolf is Germanic, Rassau and later Berlin & Solingen.
Nice Side sword. Maybe Town guard?



The full frontal face mark doesn't ring a bell tho. Doesn't look very Moorish.

[Copycat]

Hard to prove, but a fun theory nonetheless.

The wolves, moon and sun are often depicted in old Germanic
and European swords. These could refer to the Norse mythology of sol and mani being chased by wolves.

Another fun theory. Solingen could refer to sol. No one knows.

My point is:
The face could just symbolize sol or the sun. I have seen more swords with a similar face on the blade. I will post an example if I can find one.

[Triarii]

Passau wolf of Solingen, though widely copied.
The anchor is often seen at the end of the fuller on German blades, though there is one on a possible Picinino blade in my collection, but that could be a copy (of Picinino) too.

[Akanthus]

Originally Posted by Triarii

Passau wolf of Solingen, though widely copied.
The anchor is often seen at the end of the fuller on German blades, though there is one on a possible Picinino blade in my collection, but that could be a copy (of Picinino) too.

Brand piracy....worse than nowadays...nothing changed in the last 450 Years...... I think there are lot of examples concerning blades and swords......

[Jim McDougall]

The so called 'anchor' decoration is a convention well known on Spanish blades of 16th-17th centuries which was of course also used on blades produced in Germany, primarily Solingen and in Italy, where the provincial connections with Spain prevailed.

As shown on the pages from the late Roger Evans ("The Plug Bayonet") these even occurred on bayonets (but later), and this same configuration was found on a Tomas Aiala rapier from the wreck of the Atocha (1622) off Florida. Clearly the 'anchor' convention was widespread and long standing.

The ubiquitous 'running wolf' mark was not a distinct makers mark, but a type of marking with apparent beginnings in Passau centuries before its more widespread use as an indicator suggesting blade quality. While first associated with guilds, this was typically seen as more a talismanic imbuement of the blade which became an element of what was known as 'Passau art' (Wagner, 1967). Passau as a center for armourers who supplied mercenary forces seems to have had various types of amuletic elements available in these very superstitious contexts.

As the 'wolf' was essentially an imbuement whose presence on a blade was the key factor, artistic quality obviously was not essential as obviously seen in the sometimes wildly stylized character of the many examples. These were scribed into blades typically by various workers, but it does seem that in Solingen a degree of uniformity was reached in some degree suggesting perhaps some stamps may have been produced. There was no linear or chronological development of the device, but mostly variation aligned with singular application.

As noted, some makers used a Moors(or Blackamoor as many references term) head as a marking in Solingen, and typically these are in a side view. However the shops and families sometimes deviated from the conventional forms used, and these lesser volume examples were not included in known records. It does seem I have seen similar as well, however mostly these frontal facial depictions seem more in line with decoration in themes on hilts of 17th century.

A nice example which appears as described, German arming sword with rapier style hilt of early 17th century.

[Akanthus]

Hello Jim, Thank you for your quick response.Didn't came of the idea of an anchor.Your knowledge about swords is fascinating.Reminds me of Mr. Gerhard Seifert ,the Grand Seigneur of edged weaponry in Germany,whom i had the luck to know personally.He never got tired to answer my silly questions.Would be glad to know only the things which you both have already forgotten .
Also thanks for the other answers.

[werecow]

Has the face mark been posted here before? It feels eerily familiar but I can't find it in the places I would usually look for such a thing.

Which reminds me again that I wish I had the energy and resources to build an image-searchable sword markings database. Would be an interesting application to build.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Akanthus

Hello Jim, Thank you for your quick response.Didn't came of the idea of an anchor.Your knowledge about swords is fascinating.Reminds me of Mr. Gerhard Seifert ,the Grand Seigneur of edged weaponry in Germany,whom i had the luck to know personally.He never got tired to answer my silly questions.Would be glad to know only the things which you both have already forgotten .
Also thanks for the other answers.

Thank you for the kind words. While I did not know Mr. Seifert personally, like with you, he always graciously answered my many questions. I still have his letters tucked into my old copy of "Schwert Degen Sabel" alongside his work on the Blucher sabel. He was a true fountain of knowledge and always openly shared it and encouraged the advance of study on these weapons. I think these sages of our fields of study would be delighted to see us still carrying forward where they left off.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
'Anchor' mark on a Tomas de Ailia rapier blade I have, probably last quarter 16thC.
Regards,
Norman.

[Triarii]

On the original post, the paintings of the Thirty Years War, such as the highly detailed ones by Sebastiaen Vrancx and Peter Snayer, show a proliferation of complex hilted, straight bladed weapons.
They also regularly appear on the infantry figures in C17th drill books.

I have a weapon not unlike this, which someone on this forum identified for me as a Dutch cavalry weapon of the 1620s - 30s. Its lost the small shells in the guard, but has a complex hilt and robust tapering blade.

Here's Vrancx's 'Soldiers plundering' c.1620. Look at the forground and background soldiers

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by werecow

Has the face mark been posted here before? It feels eerily familiar but I can't find it in the places I would usually look for such a thing.

Which reminds me again that I wish I had the energy and resources to build an image-searchable sword markings database. Would be an interesting application to build.

Is it a type of Moors Head?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Is it a type of Moors Head?

It is in that context quite likely, but also reminds me of the 'green man' themes and some of the cherub type figures often seen in 17th century hilts. The green man is of course more botanical, but the neoclassic convention is similar.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Is it a type of Moors Head?

Could be I suppose... It somehow reminds me of certain Greek or Roman depictions... Maybe some vague resemblance to gorgon faces/Medusa? Or maybe I'm seeing things...

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by werecow

Could be I suppose... It somehow reminds me of certain Greek or Roman depictions... Maybe some vague resemblance to gorgon faces/Medusa? Or maybe I'm seeing things...

Good observation! as noted earlier, these kinds of faces, figures turn up a lot on the neoclassic themes in various hilt designs, however not as much for 'markings' in use by makers in this frontal facial view. Most such markings seem to favor side view or profiles.

[M ELEY]

My 17th c. hanger with 'Medusa' head just for reference to classic designs on swords...or is it a harpy?

[werecow]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

My 17th c. hanger with 'Medusa' head just for reference to classic designs on swords...or is it a harpy?

If we can classify it as a "hartsvanger" it could be a cherub.

[Jim McDougall]

That is an amazing hanger capn! and very much in line with the cherub, green man etc. themes popular in early 17th c. on hilts in England and France. Again, these are hilt theme figures, so unusual to see them in a blade as a punzone.
Its really difficult to place effective explanations for these kinds of figures in sword decoration but aside from all the rather elaborate and diverse notes on cherubim, the one I find most intriguing is the Biblical association with these figures holding the flaming sword. The cases of the 'flaming sword' blade (flammard) is of course seen in various cases which may have had this kind of symbolic association as well. Naturally none of these suppositions is explained in references so we can only speculate on these highly symbolic themes.

[M ELEY]

Cherub sounds good to me! I had forgotten the smaller cherub faces at the mid-point of the knuckle bow of my sword and a few around the pommel. But not to distract from the amazing sword being discussed!