Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 29th June 2023, 04:25 AM   #1
Radboud
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 261
Default 17th Century Walloon swords

Hello all, I'm trying to find more history on the so-called 'Amsterdam Town Guards' Walloon sword.

Name:  17th Cent. Walloon Sword 01.jpg
Views: 4240
Size:  364.8 KB

Name:  17th Cent. Walloon Sword 02.jpg
Views: 4189
Size:  365.3 KB

Generally speaking, the term 'Walloon sword' is now applied to a broad range of swords typically characterised by its distinctive hilt, which features asymmetrical discs for the guard, a knuckle bow, spherical pommel, rear quillon and often one or two side branches to form a basket hilt.

The 'Amsterdam' swords vary from this type by having only the single knuckle guard, a distinctive perforated guard, where the holes are decorated to look like small stars or suns. It is believed that these swords date back to between 1650 and 1700 and are unique for the uniformity of their design. The bulk of these swords feature a 36-inch (92mm) broadsword blade and are believed to have been used by the cavalry. Occasionally swords with shorter blades do show up with claims that they were for infantry. But I have to wonder if the blades have not been shortened in the last 300 years. The same holds true for when these is a backsword on one of these hilts... How do we know this is the original blade?

Name:  17th Cent. Walloon Sword 05.jpg
Views: 3912
Size:  1.15 MB

Name:  17th Cent. Walloon Sword 08.jpg
Views: 3877
Size:  1.15 MB

Name:  17th Cent. Walloon Sword 09.jpg
Views: 3899
Size:  1.22 MB

Originally these swords were believed to have belonged to the Amsterdam city militia because they are almost universally marked with the Amsterdam Coat of Arms:

Name:  17th Cent. Walloon Sword 13.jpg
Views: 3806
Size:  1.50 MB

Name:  17th Cent. Walloon Sword 14.jpg
Views: 3774
Size:  1.18 MB

However, too many of this type have survived for them to have been exclusive to a city militia. Another theory goes that the French captured several 'walloon' swords in their war with the Dutch in 1672-1673 and called them epee wallone based on this design, French King Louis XIV in 1679 ordered that his cavalry be armed with a specific sword based on this type. If correct, it would represent the first official French pattern sword. The rationale behind the Amsterdam stamp, is that the order went through the cities' guilds when Solingen refused to deal with France at the time.

This argument is made in the French magazine; Gazette des armes No. 473 March 2015

Another possibility is that these swords were supplied to the standing army of the Province of Holland, of which Amsterdam was the economic capital. In the 17th Century, The Netherlands was a republic of seven Provinces. Rather than having one unified standing army, these provinces each would have supplied and maintained their own levies under their banner in times of war.

I think the presence of the Amsterdam stamp is key in this puzzle. Is it unique to these swords, meaning it could be a Pattern specific to the Holland provincial army. Or was the mark applied to other swords indicating that it was a commercial guild mark of the Amsterdam guilds (who wielded a lot of influence at the time).

Has anyone encounter the three XXXs on a crowned shield on any other type of blade?

(For cultural reference, to this day the XXX motif can be seen everywhere one looks in the city of Amsterdam.)
Radboud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2023, 04:35 PM   #2
Triarii
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Bristol
Posts: 113
Default

In the case of these types, Amsterdam was a major exporter of arms and armour, including items that they acted as middlemen for. The 'Sahagun' mark and Passau running wolf are generally considered to be a sign that the blade was made in Germany for onward export by the Dutch. The XXX Amsterdam control mark is often found under the hilt or overlapped by it, indicating assembly after inspection in Amsterdam, though there is some evidence of hilts also being made in Germany, such as at Koln (Cologne).
Vast amounts of arms and armour were imported from the continent by both sides in the English Civil War, including from Holland where they sent buyers and there is at least one Parliamentary record of an order for '200 swords with Dutch blades'.
The English 'Walloon' sword may predate these, and carries on into the late C17th. Similar style, but often with a cylindrical pommel, sometimes ribbed, with two side bars to the knucklebow and no thumb ring. The shell guards are smaller with piercings only in the middle part of the plate. I have one, that from the overall size, is probably for use on foot.
Triarii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2023, 09:13 PM   #3
Radboud
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 261
Default

Thank you for adding your knowledge to this. Would you have any images of other blades with this Amsterdam mark? I’ve looked but not had a lot of luck.
Radboud is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.