Kris for comment

[xasterix]

This kris sat on eBay for a long time (probably over a year). I risked buying it because I felt it was special.

After receiving it all the way from Greece, I realized the hilt was already compromised (it had a large, median crack and disintegrating hemp wrap). I decided to replace with a vintage Maguindanao hilt that I had, but still retained the original broken pommel (the crest was torn clean off).

I etched it afterwards, and was pleased with the results.

Another noteworthy thing about the kris is its scabbard plate pattern. It's non-Moro. Being familiar with some Luzon patterns, I compared it with acanthus leaf found on Spanish-era furniture. The pics I enclosed are from a 19th century comoda made either in Batangas or Laguna. I'm theorizing that a migrant Tagalog artisan in Moroland made the carving. It's also possible that the piece was captured, and the second owner decided to have it personalized in a Tagalog area.

The mixed heritage of some PH blades is really interesting, and helps flesh out the possible journey of a blade through bygone eras.

[kai]

Thanks, Ray, that is a very elegant blade as far as non-archaic pieces are concerned!

I'd guess this dates back to the mid-19th century. Also twistcore is rare with diamond cross-sections. Could you add dimensions, please?

Do you have pics of the original configuration even if damaged?

I'm afraid that I don't see much semblance of the crosspiece carving with the Filipino style shown; especially the mediterranean Acanthus motif seems to be missing. I'd rather posit that there seem to be Melayu ties: While most Malay motifs represent flowers with radial symmetry, a few may be shown in profile; also the vegetal/vine motif seems to be closer IMHO. For example, fairly similar flowers are shown in "Spirit of Wood" on pages 86-87 (top figure).

If not traditional Moro/Sulu ukkil, maybe more recent influence via Brunei?

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Sorry, pp. 96-97: FL005.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by kai

Thanks, Ray, that is a very elegant blade as far as non-archaic pieces are concerned!

I'd guess this dates back to the mid-19th century. Also twistcore is rare with diamond cross-sections. Could you add dimensions, please?

Do you have pics of the original configuration even if damaged?

I'm afraid that I don't see much semblance of the crosspiece carving with the Filipino style shown; especially the mediterranean Acanthus motif seems to be missing. I'd rather posit that there seem to be Melayu ties: While most Malay motifs represent flowers with radial symmetry, a few may be shown in profile; also the vegetal/vine motif seems to be closer IMHO. For example, fairly similar flowers are shown in "Spirit of Wood" on pages 86-87 (top figure).

If not traditional Moro/Sulu ukkil, maybe more recent influence via Brunei?

Regards,
Kai

Hi Kai! Really grateful for your insights- I'm always happy to be proven wrong, especially since I need to learn more about patterns. I'm attaching a pic of the orig hilt config. I don't have a copy of the book you mentioned- but I'm trying to dig for one. I agree the Malay angle may be more logical as far as influence is concerned. As for measurement, it's 21in blade, 5.5in hilt (the replacement hilt grip has the exact measurement as the orig- I'd like to think that was fate at play!).

[Ian]

Very nice sword Xas, and even better resto work. Congratulations.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Ian

Very nice sword Xas, and even better resto work. Congratulations.

Thanks very much Ian

[Gavin Nugent]

Nice buying xasterix, and sweet blade.

Carved Sampir are not all that common... I've referenced what examples I have on file and whilst most are loosely ths profile shape, none carry the same or similar motifs.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Nice buying xasterix, and sweet blade.

Carved Sampir are not all that common... I've referenced what examples I have on file and whilst most are loosely ths profile shape, none carry the same or similar motifs.

Thanks Gavin! The carving motif is indeed interesting, hoping to get to the bottom of it

[Sajen]

Very nice and interesting kris! Congrats Xas.

Here a picture from the pages Kai mentioned before.

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Xas,

On looking more closely at your pictures of the Luzon furniture and the kris scabbard, I think the plants are actually different. I've blown up both pics.

On the scabbard you can see distinct flowers, with the central ovule and three surrounding petals. There may be two different flowers represented on the scabbard if you compare the most central one with the others (pointed versus rounded leaves).

On the furniture, the three-lobed structures have no central ovule and are probably not flowers. They are multi-layered and could be seed pods or perhaps leaf buds, but not flowers. Lovely carving BTW.

I think you are looking at different botanical species in each picture.

Ian.
.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Very nice and interesting kris! Congrats Xas.

Here a picture from the pages Kai mentioned before.

Regards,
Detlef

Thanks very much for this Detlef! Super helpful!

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Ian

Xas,

On looking more closely at your pictures of the Luzon furniture and the kris scabbard, I think the plants are actually different. I've blown up both pics.

On the scabbard you can see distinct flowers, with the central ovule and three surrounding petals. There may be two different flowers represented on the scabbard if you compare the most central one with the others (pointed versus rounded leaves).

On the furniture, the three-lobed structures have no central ovule and are probably not flowers. They are multi-layered and could be seed pods or perhaps leaf buds, but not flowers. Lovely carving BTW.

I think you are looking at different botanical species in each picture.

Ian.
.

Thanks for pointing that out Ian, those are clear differences indeed. I need a botanist to crunch these depictions

[kino]

What an amazing find. Your intuition led you to it. I’ve glanced at that Kris several times but never thought what lay below the blades patina. Congrats.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by kino

What an amazing find. Your intuition led you to it. I’ve glanced at that Kris several times but never thought what lay below the blades patina. Congrats.

Thanks very much sir!

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Thanks Gavin! The carving motif is indeed interesting, hoping to get to the bottom of it

I look at this and immediately think Sulu by the sheath profile overall... but I look at the carvings, and without any notable reference to compare to by design specifically, there is something in the manner of the carving that seems Samal to me... does anyone have good timber carving references for the Southern Sulu regions?

On the off chance that the Met holds a kris with carvings to the sheath, this might be worth a follow up.

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collec...nce&pageSize=0

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

I look at this and immediately think Sulu by the sheath profile overall... but I look at the carvings, and without any notable reference to compare to by design specifically, there is something in the manner of the carving that seems Samal to me... does anyone have good timber carving references for the Southern Sulu regions?

On the off chance that the Met holds a kris with carvings to the sheath, this might be worth a follow up.

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collec...nce&pageSize=0

Halloo Gavin, I've been told by an elder that the carved pattern on the scabbard is non-Moro. It doesn't fall under 'ukkil' or 'okir' either, which the Sama use. Thanks and great find on the Met item- I'll try to contact them, fingers crossed!

[kino]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

... does anyone have good timber carving references for the Southern Sulu regions?

Gavin, Have you seen this publication?

[Battara]

Xasterix, I will admit that I've seen this type of ukkil before, but I have not been able to attribute it to any Moro group yet. It is unusual though.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Battara

Xasterix, I will admit that I've seen this type of ukkil before, but I have not been able to attribute it to any Moro group yet. It is unusual though.

Your comment tugged at my memory...there was indeed a similarly-themed scabbard in the forum before. Finally located it:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kris+sabre

Interesting that the shape of the scabbard is the same, and the carving motif very similar.

[Battara]

Yes that scabbard shape like this one seems indicative of Sulu work, and the ukkil of the other scabbard also seems Sulu.

Yours - a Sulu variant? Different tribe in the region?

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Battara

Yes that scabbard shape like this one seems indicative of Sulu work, and the ukkil of the other scabbard also seems Sulu.

Yours - a Sulu variant? Different tribe in the region?

I've been told by Sulu and Mindanao elders that the pattern is not ukkil nor okir. Non-Moro, simply put. It doesn't follow the conventions of Moro patterns.

[Battara]

I agree - not traditional Moro okir/ukkil

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by kino

Gavin, Have you seen this publication?

I have not Kino. Is there good wood carving data within?