Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 26th May 2023, 12:28 PM   #1
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
Default King fisher hilt kriss ? Really recent or not ?

Hello dear members,
I got this dagger and I'm not a specialist at all in keris.
I hesitate between tourist made really recent stuff and real item:
The blade, wood parts seems old.
Scabbard and hilt seems made of brass.
It's a large model, more than 60cms long.

Interesting caracter for the hilt :
Looks like a nobile man with a fish,
Fisher king ?
Attached Images
     
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2023, 04:04 PM   #2
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 464
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by francantolin View Post
Interesting caracter for the hilt :
Looks like a nobile man with a fish,
Fisher king ?
The other questions I will leave for the knowledgeable. He is holding a shanka (conch shell). While many carried and used this auspicious symbol it is associated with Vishnu in particular. The shell is normally held in his right hand.
Interested Party is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2023, 05:23 PM   #3
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
Default

Thank's a lot for the conch and Vishnu idea,
If it is Vishnu, he can have his four arms but no other attribute /symbols like mace, chakra or lotus
( maybe just 2 arms and 2 legs !)

Last thing: maybe it is gilded
Attached Images
      
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2023, 05:56 PM   #4
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
Red face Was expecting something different from the thread's subject line...

Hello Franc,

I agree with IP on the conch shell.

I'm pretty sure this hilt was never gilded. It's a more recent style from Java copying keris Bali during the second half of the 20th century, I believe; craftsmanship is usually low to abysmal and this seems to be one of the better examples.

Its collectability rates low in my book though since this is neither a traditional hilt style nor modern keris art.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2023, 06:07 PM   #5
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 464
Default

Thanks for the additional pictures. The long nails on the left hand are interesting. Looking again the eyes are very round maybe implying less virtue. Of course, I could be applying cultural values that do not apply to this object. I am looking forward to the experts weighing in! Thanks, Kai, for the vote of confidence.
Interested Party is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2023, 07:35 PM   #6
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
Default

It must be battara Bayu, ( with a conch...?...)
two arms and two legs...
Found some pictures,
Two from another post in Vikingsword
The last from the MET ,
Sure, another quality...
Attached Images
   
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2023, 10:56 PM   #7
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,877
Default

Kai is absolutely correct in what he has written.

This keris uses a Javanese blade, it was put together in Jogja, the man who was the principal fabricator of this hilt style passed about 25 years ago, he had made these in his younger years, and probably his father before him.

There was more than one maker, I only knew the man I have mentioned.

I used the word "fabricator". The metal shell was made by one man, the fabricator, the embossing work was done by a second man, the chaser.

Because these were very low cost tourist items, only low grade chasers were used, thus these hilts are never of any quality.

No cultural values can be read into this keris, nor the components of its dress. They were made for dealers and fed into the market by general dealers, not by anybody associated with keris.

Some were sold locally in Jogja, others went to Jakarta & Bali.
A. G. Maisey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2023, 12:59 PM   #8
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
Default

Hello all,
Glad to hear the blade is javanese and learn about the origin and craftmanship of the metal parts,
Sure not an antique but there is work on it and I'll keep it in my sword collection .
For the ''gilded'' term , it's because it seems ''powdered'' on many parts and has a white metal color (under?) many parts
Maybe it is a mix of brass and other metal...
Attached Images
 
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2023, 01:21 PM   #9
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 871
Talking

Internet......
I just found two brother and sister to my dagger,
Really exagerated prices and said to be19th century
( with lower craftmanship quality )

I can reassure you, I paid more than 15 times less for mine.
Beware one more time...XXXX
Attached Images
  
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2023, 02:15 AM   #10
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by francantolin View Post
Glad to hear the blade is javanese and learn about the origin and craftmanship of the metal parts,
Sure not an antique but there is work on it and I'll keep it in my sword collection
Well, to be be fair, i would say that the blade here is very probably an antique. What these sellers do is to redress old, well worn and mostly unwanted blades in this weird, low quality "blingy" dress. The cloth here are contemporary, but the blade still has some age.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.