Kris hilt material query

[SidJ]

Hi
Any views on the material of this hilt? Sold as rhino.
I have no other images.
Best
Sid

[Sajen]

Water buffalo horn! For sure not rhino!

[SidJ]

Thanks Sajen
I did not hold out much hope. Any opinions on the keris itself would be welcome re quality and scarcity of the horn hilt etc

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, water buffalo (kerbau).

[SidJ]

Here is an image of the kris. Any thoughts on its overall quality and age notwithstanding it is buffalo horn would be welcome. The scabbard us not original to the kris and is a poor fit.

[SidJ]

The blade is 36cm long.

[A. G. Maisey]

Sid, this style of keris is not really my prime area of knowledge, so I'll limit my comments to saying that it appears to be of reasonable quality and in reasonable condition. The hilt itself is perhaps the nicest & most valuable component of this item.

However, your note that the scabbard is not original to the blade does prompt me to comment on this element of your description.

Where a keris has been prepared for use as an item of dress it is important that the scabbard should be one that has been made for that specific blade.

However, where a keris has been used in any combat situation it is not at all unusual to find that the blade will not be a perfect fit to the scabbard.

The reason for this is that often under combat conditions a scabbard will have been dropped, lost or discarded when the keris itself was in use. After the period of use a different scabbard was sometimes substituted for the original. We find this situation of a mismatch quite often and particularly with Balinese & Bugis keris.

[SidJ]

Thanks Alan
The scabbard although not original has been with the keris for some time. This is evidenced by the clear difference in blade colour at the point where it protrudes from the scabbard mouth. So I guess we can say the replacement is not recent and perhaps probably done within the culture.

[A. G. Maisey]

Very possible Sid.

[Sajen]

Hello Sid,

The hilt is in the pangulu style, scabbard looks Bugis but I am a little bit unsure about the blade, could be Bugis also. A proper warangan could give some clues.

Regards,
Detlef

[SidJ]

The blade cross section is not hexagonal in profile like typical Bugis blades. Could this be Sumatran,? I do not know if the Hilt could be Sumatran too. Is this what pengulu style refers to?

[A. G. Maisey]

Detlef, in Bahasa Indonesia the word "panghulu" (also penghulu, pengulu, pangulu) means a village chief or a leader.

In the Ahmad Ubbe book the word used for "hilt" is "hulu" with "pangulu" in brackets after "hulu"; he gives "kili-kili" as the word for "mendak", also bracketted after "kili-kili".

If we read down through the following description of the hilts, further information is given, including "tipe" (in English:- "type"), for example, "rekko" which appears to be the name Ahmad Ubbe uses for this bent over pistol grip form of hilt.

As I have previously written, I have next to no knowledge in respect of this type of keris, but I do have Ahmad Ubbe's book --- much of which I find a bit confusing.

[milandro]

I have a similar but absolutely modern Bugis hilt certainly made of Kerbau as I believe this too is (although mine is certainly black with hints of white-grey) while this appears to be brown . Also I have a couple of similar Bugis warangkas very similar. The blade may or may not be " Bugis" but since the Bugis culture is widespread in many areas could easily be borrowed from a different tradition. It somewhat reminds me of a Palembang blade that I have.


With hindsight, it is possible that it may be rhino.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6162


One should be really looking at any trace of dotty structure. If it is...this may be bad news since out is not possible to legally trade this item in perpetuity and only a museum may be able to display it

I am curious to whom would be able in any western country of the world to offer rhino hilt?

[A. G. Maisey]

As to blade origin, I believe I can see a lot of Jawa in the blade, but the complete keris still qualifies as Bugis style.

[SidJ]

Milandro antique rhino can freely be sold in the UK. It cannot be exported though. Andbthe EU and other nations bans it completely as I understand it. Ivory is much more restricted than rhino in the UK.

[milandro]

I see that the trade of Rhino horn is allowed in the UK to be traded, provided it is from before 1947, which this specimen, may be.

https://www.savetherhino.org/our-wor...antique-trade/

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Detlef, in Bahasa Indonesia the word "panghulu" (also penghulu, pengulu, pangulu) means a village chief or a leader.

In the Ahmad Ubbe book the word used for "hilt" is "hulu" with "pangulu" in brackets after "hulu"; he gives "kili-kili" as the word for "mendak", also bracketted after "kili-kili".

If we read down through the following description of the hilts, further information is given, including "tipe" (in English:- "type"), for example, "rekko" which appears to be the name Ahmad Ubbe uses for this bent over pistol grip form of hilt.

As I have previously written, I have next to no knowledge in respect of this type of keris, but I do have Ahmad Ubbe's book --- much of which I find a bit confusing.

Hello Alan,

Yes, he used the term "pangulu" for hulu, you are correct and specified it furthermore. But it seems that this term gets used by collectors for this typical pistol grip here and elsewhere.
I should have written more clearly and specifically, sorry!

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by milandro

With hindsight, it is possible that it may be rhino.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6162

One should be really looking at any trace of dotty structure.

I don't see any photo of this hilt in this thread that gives the impression that this hilt is rhino. You are correct that one needs to identify the tubular structure of rhino horn that would terminate at the surface in tiny dots, but no such structure is visible in these images. If Sid can see such structure in his hilt it would probably be visible by looking straight at the "face" of the hilt. Using a strong flashlight can also help as the horn should be somewhat translucent. If Sid can see this structure perhaps he can capture in in photos from a better angle.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Detlef, he uses "panghulu" for "hilt", and it appears that this is Bugis usage, it is a word that is used for all the keris hilts in his book, for example, on P.147 a figural hilt is shown, the caption tells us that it is a "Pangulu Tau-tau".

It is entirely possible that many collectors have decided for themselves that only the pistol grip type of hilt is the "pangulu", but if so, this is out of culture usage in a way that is only applicable to a segment of the collector society.

This sort of thing, ie, incorrect usage of terms & words, is fairly common amongst collectors, and provided it stays within the collector community, I cannot see much wrong with it, at least they understand what they are talking about --- provided they only use these incorrect terms with one another.

Collectors in general, not only keris collectors, but collectors in other fields as well, seem to have a great desire to categorise everything, if use of incorrect terms assists in their categorisation, that need not be any sort of a problem for those who wish to develop their studies past a parade of names.

[Sajen]

Agree complete with you. When we go with Ahmad Ubbe the hilt in question is called "rekko".

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Yep.