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#1 |
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please don't misrepresent what i write... i posted the picture taken from the Daphur book just to show why the handle is inside out
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#2 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Hello Marco ,
I'm sincerely trying to understand your comments and also noted that you doubt the cengkrong attribution might be suitable for this keris in post #27. What I'm trying to bring across is that both dhapur examples were not chosen well since cengkrong/cundrik seem to be treated differently compared to all other keris blades (including mahesa/kebo and, fitting best for your keris, dhuwung). This seems also supported by quite a number of keris from these resembling dhapur families that I've seen. Actually, I'd be very keen to see how large cengkrong/cundrik blades are fitted into scabbards - those I remember exhibited not as broad blade bases as shown in the reference book. Thanks for bringing up this point for us all to learn! Regards, Kai |
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#3 | |
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#4 | |
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This is what this blade put me in mind of, lacking a kembang kacang of course. At the time of purchase it was identified to me as Kebo Giri Luk Telu. I have also seen Kebo Giri named Mahesa Kanthong. I do also see much merit with Alan's suggestion of dhapur dhuwung luk lima. While the pakem drawings i have seen of dhapur dhuwung usually suggest a somewhat broader/wider blade the yours it still does seem to fit the suggest ricikan well. Though it possible this is simply a dhapur that falls between the folds. There probably should be a point where we stop trying to squeeze a keris in per-existing categories and simply just enjoy the blade for whatever it is. ![]() |
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#5 | |
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#6 |
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please, David can you show me how the keris is inserted in the gajaman?
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#7 | |
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Maybe the given pictures of three from my keris are helpful! I feel the sarung for your keris is wrong, sorry. Regards, Detlef |
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#8 |
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Marco, in respect of your post #55.
Please see my post #42. If we accept that Javanese belief & tradition is correct, rather than the ideas of some craftsman, or salesman then this keris under discussion has been incorrectly mounted to the wrongko. In my post I have written "--- my understanding ---" that understanding was gained from several keris literate people in Solo whom I knew during the 1980's, all have now left us, and all these people were members of the hierarchy of the Karaton Surakarta Hardiningrat, equally, all these people were devout followers of Javanese tradition. This keris is most certainly unusual, it is a nice addition to a collection if for no other reason than that it demonstrates the erosion of cultural understanding over time, but it is incorrectly mounted. |
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#9 | |
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![]() my keris is like this |
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#10 |
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#11 | |
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Hello Marco,
No worries - we're pretty much all students here... ![]() Quote:
For example, all blades in Haryoguritno's book "Keris Jawa ..." are shown in standard orientation except for cengkrong/cundrik. Regards, Kai |
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#12 | |
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As Kai has repeated, the position of the hilt that you show is ONLY correct (at least according to this diagram) for cengkrong and cundrik. I personally do not believe that your blade is either one of those dhapurs, so your diagram does not apply to your keris. I am sorry that i do not have any better images at this moment to show you how my Kebo Giri fits into the wrongko, but i can assure you it is in the usual manner. You may be able to tell that from this over all image though. Again, i have NEVER seen a keris fitted to the wrongko in the reverse manner of your keris. I have no idea why anyone would do this. |
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#13 | |
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#14 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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On a side note, a significant proportion of cengkrong/cundrik coming onto the market in western countries are missing scabbards for whatever reason (arguably, this is also true for antique keris in general and seemingly higher proportions of cengkrong/cundrik may only be a sampling artefact since they are not common). Also quite some seem to come out of western Java: I have no idea what customs regarding these specific dhapur apply for orang Sunda. Regards, Kai |
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