Chronological listing of Polish-Lithuanian and Hungarian sabers

[Teisani]

Here's something that caught my eye. While browsing the pictures in the site mentioned above, this "fragment of a painting of the palace in Kielce (Poland) in the 1630s" had two hussars, who appear to be wearing sabres with typical boot-hilt, and cross-guard with side-ring. It's not the best clarity, so the side-ring aspect is debatable.


Then I remembered that I had seen a sabre with a side-ring before... in this depiction of Nikola Zrinski (Ban of Croatia 1647-1664) from the Klebebände (Band 2) by Jacob von Sandrart (publisher) 17th century. At first I thought it was a fantasy design, but now I must reconsider my verdict.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...and_02_337.jpg

[Teisani]

Add to this, the fact that in the Stockholm Roll from 1605 we have some Polish infantryman carrying what appear to be sabres with knuckle-bows and side-rings. They could be dusägge/dussack type sabres, but usually these have more complex hilts and pommels. So, any opinions?

[awdaniec666]

Originally Posted by Teisani

So, any opinions?

This could be the early Lithuanian modification of Hungarian sabers. Lithuanians seem to have preferred more protective guards. There are plenty of examples from around 1700. These here could be predecessors. This is just a guess for now.

[Teisani]

Patrick, I would like to comment a bit on a picture in karabela section of your document on page 1. The picture is from "Turnierbuch von Erzherzog Ferdinand II. Fol. 167, Austria after 1557, Kunstkammer Inv.-Nr. 5134. On closer inspection, I don't think de depiction is of a karabela-hilted sabre, rather a banana-hilt. I've attached it, and a few more photos from it. https://www.facebook.com/Wissenswert...Epochen/photos






And from Hochzeitskodex Erzherzog Ferdinands II.: Ferdinand und Wilhelm 1582. Künstler/in: Sigmund Elsässer

[awdaniec666]

Teisani,
hm.., with respect to the quality of the paintings I think we can interpret the hilts as they are shown to us and that hilt is clearly shaped like an eagle-head.

[awdaniec666]

Some more depictions I found recently.

1. Hieronim Radziwill in his hussarish wedding dress, Poland-Lithuania - anno 1764
2. Stanislaw Herakliusz Lubomirski, Poland-Lithuania - 2nd half of the 17th century (note the scabbard of the Karabela -clearly a battle type- beeing decorated in red instead of black, in contrast to some authors who claim these were only encased with black leather. It´s also interesting that the hilt is probably made of wood or horn despite the rank of the bearer, which is an argument against claims that simple hilts were used solely by the lower class nobles who could not afford lavishly decorated hilts. The Lubomirski family was one of the richest in Europe at that time.)

[Teisani]

1 - Thököly Imre from Transylvania, born 1657 - died 1705. Karabela hilt sabre. Chevrons on the hilt are visible.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...ump-to-license


2- Pálffy Miklós 1552–1600 from Transylvania. I'm unsure if this portret was made much after his death, it's from Klebeband Nr. 1. I believe we should be careful with these portrets, since some could be later copies of lost originals, and could contain elements from later periods. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...ump-to-license

At his side there is a typical boot-hilted sabre. In the lower left corner two sabres which look like karabela hilt, however they also seen reminescent of german hunting-sword hilts, like these here. They lack the languette on the side of the guard, but it's pretty common for period depictions to omit this detail. Opinions?