my last keris

Rick · 28th March 2023, 01:12 AM

I guess I have two questions:

Why did you purchase it?

Why is it reversed in the wrongko?

I think we'd all like to know your reasoning.

Green · 28th March 2023, 07:23 AM

Alan, Sajen and Kai;

I'm really not observant! my bad. Many thanks for pointing that out!
That is truly a first. "Remarkable" ! Rightly so Alan.I've never seen the blade in reverse position in the sheath like this also. Can anyone give any reason why ?

(Although I must say I've seen a LOT of hilts positioned in reverse position even by the so called 'experts'....)

milandro · 28th March 2023, 08:26 AM

Since Marco is not a novice at this, I am supposing that there is more that meets the eye here and that he is just chuckling

Marcokeris · 28th March 2023, 01:54 PM

dapur Maeso Slurung / Nabrang

JustYS · 28th March 2023, 03:11 PM

Hi Marco,

Which reference are you using for the dhapur name?

According to Empu Djeno Harumbrodjo (from your old post), dhapur Mahisa/Kebo Selurung is as the following:

Marcokeris · 28th March 2023, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustYS

Hi Marco,

Which reference are you using for the dhapur name?

According to Empu Djeno Harumbrodjo (from your old post), dhapur Mahisa/Kebo Selurung is as the following:

I reported only the name of dapur that the seller indicated to me at my request

David · 28th March 2023, 09:26 PM

It looks similar to Mahesa Kathong with luk, but no kembang kacang. An interesting blade.
That said i can see absolutely no logic in the reversed hilt and sheath positioning.

A. G. Maisey · 28th March 2023, 09:44 PM

This dhapur naming is perhaps a good example of the non-standardisation of keris terminology.

Marco's seller has given it as "Maeso Slurung / Nabrang " , "maeso" = "mahesa" = "kebo", kebo keris have a long gandhik, "slurung" is maybe from "selur" = "in a row", so maybe the name given indicates a "kebo keris with gandhiks in a row". Maybe.

However, if we use the Surakarta pakem as our reference, what we are looking at is dhapur Dhuwung Luk Lima.

Then we have dhapur "Mahesa Nabrang", this form has 15 luk.

Names used for dhapurs can & do vary from place to place, and within those places from group to group.

The Javanese language itself is not a standardised language --- according to linguists --- Javanese people famously have only one name, they do not use a family name, but that one name can change according to situation & context.

I do not believe it is possible to know all the name variations for pamors & dhapurs.

GIO · 29th March 2023, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

I reported only the name of dapur that the seller indicated to me at my request

Please look at the enclosure.
From "Ilmu Keris" by S Lumintu 1994

ganjawulung · 2nd June 2023, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

dapur Maeso Slurung / Nabrang

IMHO it is a rare Chengkrong Pandawa keris.

ganjawulung · 2nd June 2023, 04:01 AM

Last Thursday (01/06/2023) I went to the Radyapustaka Museum in Solo. In a museum showcase, I saw a keris quite similar to Marco's keris – not precisely similar, but it had three curves or luks. It is a Cengkrong Jangkung, if Marco's keris luk five, it is a Cengkrong Pandawa.

The Cengkrong Jangkung keris is on the far right in the showcase in front of me.

ganjawulung · 2nd June 2023, 04:14 AM

The cengkrong dhapur on the Javanese keris, is the only dhapur that is a panjingan (omah-omahan, keris hole) in its special position. Unlike the other dhapur kerises. Keris hole in its sheath, is reversed. The front becomes the back, the back becomes the front of the sheath.

As photographed (01/06/2023)in this keris belonging to the Radyapustaka Museum in Solo, Central Java, Indonesia...

28th March 2023, 01:54 PM	#4
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	dapur Maeso Slurung / Nabrang Attached Images

28th March 2023, 03:11 PM	#5
JustYS Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 138	Hi Marco, Which reference are you using for the dhapur name? According to Empu Djeno Harumbrodjo (from your old post), dhapur Mahisa/Kebo Selurung is as the following: Attached Images

2nd June 2023, 04:01 AM	#11
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	CENGKRONG PANDAWA IN RADYAPUSTAKA SOLO Last Thursday (01/06/2023) I went to the Radyapustaka Museum in Solo. In a museum showcase, I saw a keris quite similar to Marco's keris – not precisely similar, but it had three curves or luks. It is a Cengkrong Jangkung, if Marco's keris luk five, it is a Cengkrong Pandawa. The Cengkrong Jangkung keris is on the far right in the showcase in front of me. Attached Images Last edited by ganjawulung; 2nd June 2023 at 04:15 AM.

2nd June 2023, 04:14 AM	#12
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	EXCEPTIONAL PANJINGAN The cengkrong dhapur on the Javanese keris, is the only dhapur that is a panjingan (omah-omahan, keris hole) in its special position. Unlike the other dhapur kerises. Keris hole in its sheath, is reversed. The front becomes the back, the back becomes the front of the sheath. As photographed (01/06/2023)in this keris belonging to the Radyapustaka Museum in Solo, Central Java, Indonesia... Attached Images

28th March 2023, 01:12 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,287	I guess I have two questions: Why did you purchase it? Why is it reversed in the wrongko? I think we'd all like to know your reasoning.

28th March 2023, 07:23 AM	#2
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 311	Alan, Sajen and Kai; I'm really not observant! my bad. Many thanks for pointing that out! That is truly a first. "Remarkable" ! Rightly so Alan.I've never seen the blade in reverse position in the sheath like this also. Can anyone give any reason why ? (Although I must say I've seen a LOT of hilts positioned in reverse position even by the so called 'experts'....)

28th March 2023, 08:26 AM	#3
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 462	Since Marco is not a novice at this, I am supposing that there is more that meets the eye here and that he is just chuckling

28th March 2023, 09:26 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,100	It looks similar to Mahesa Kathong with luk, but no kembang kacang. An interesting blade. That said i can see absolutely no logic in the reversed hilt and sheath positioning.

28th March 2023, 09:44 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	This dhapur naming is perhaps a good example of the non-standardisation of keris terminology. Marco's seller has given it as "Maeso Slurung / Nabrang " , "maeso" = "mahesa" = "kebo", kebo keris have a long gandhik, "slurung" is maybe from "selur" = "in a row", so maybe the name given indicates a "kebo keris with gandhiks in a row". Maybe. However, if we use the Surakarta pakem as our reference, what we are looking at is dhapur Dhuwung Luk Lima. Then we have dhapur "Mahesa Nabrang", this form has 15 luk. Names used for dhapurs can & do vary from place to place, and within those places from group to group. The Javanese language itself is not a standardised language --- according to linguists --- Javanese people famously have only one name, they do not use a family name, but that one name can change according to situation & context. I do not believe it is possible to know all the name variations for pamors & dhapurs.