Chronological listing of Polish-Lithuanian and Hungarian sabers

[Teisani]

I would classify these swords with thin blades with acute points, pommels and figure-8 guards as koncerz / estoc / hegyestőr, because we have remnant specimens that match the iconography. You can find here an article with many pictures of this type of weapon. https://library.hungaricana.hu/en/vi...g=181&layout=s

From what I can tell, based on iconography gathered so far, koncerz were of two main types, pommeled with cross/U/8-guards or boot-hilted with cross/L/N-guards. You can see pommeled koncerz on the Stockholm Roll with the wedding procession of Sigismund III Vasa into Cracow, 1605. I talked about the Moldovan envoy's here:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=97
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...1&postcount=98

Now let's look at some others from the Stockholm Roll. You can see below other individuals wearing the same kind of golden sword with narrow sccabard and lack of knuckle-bow as the Moldovan envoy. Others are wearing swords under their left leg with knuckle-bows, boot-hilts and wide scabbards. I would call these pallos / pallash / palasz since the wide scabbards indicate wide blades for cutting.




Now here is a problem... some are in a grey zone. It's difficult sometimes to clearly define a sword as koncerz or pallash. Same probleam as in the case of side-sword versus rapier.
For example the swords below, I would define as pallash without hesitation. And they show the Ottoman origins of the wide pallash in Europe.
https://www.khm.at/de/objektdb/detail/372961/?lv=detail Skanderbeg
https://szablyavivas.blogspot.com/20...ardja.html?m=1 Thury Gyorgy



But what about the bottom one in this picture. Shorter than usual, can cut, but still very thrust-centric. Most would say koncerz, but I would say that calling it a pallash is also reasonable, because it would have functioned as one due to its blade length.


And sometimes you get wide blades in these pommeled koncerz hilts.


Now for a recap:
Effigies
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...0&postcount=63
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...3&postcount=64
Painted art
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...1&postcount=81
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...4&postcount=92
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...8&postcount=95
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=96
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=100
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=105
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=108
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=110 in this one you can see the hussar going against the Ottoman lancer. So koncerz vs. lance.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=113

It also occurred to me just now, after all these depictions in effigies and paintings, that these N-quillons, most likely, actually existed. I initially considered Stroe Buzescu's sword with N-quillons as artistic license or a unique specimen due to "eccentric rich guy" sindrome. Se here:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...5&postcount=61
Now it seems, it may not be so implausible.

[awdaniec666]

This is interesting and thanks for posting those links.
It seems to me that the concept of the Hegyestőr in Hungary and it´s specifications differs depending on which time period one is looking at. In Polish literature Koncerz means basically the over-long Estoc with Hungarian hilt from the 17th century onwards. Going through the information provided by you - and this makes sense since this weapon interpretation came from Hungary most possibly - discussed weapon (here the hegyestőr) design has in fact been shorter and carried by the belt.


"A hegyestőrök a 15. században jelentek meg, Stiborici Stibor a sírkövén jobb oldalára fölkötött hegyestőrt visel."

(Hegyestőr appeared in the 15th century, Stibor Stiborici wears a Hegyestőr tied to the right side of his tombstone.)


"A katonák nem a derekukra kötötték, hanem a nyereg jobb oldalára
erősítették."

(The soldiers did not tie it around their waists, but attached it to the right side of the saddle.)

Source:
https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegyest%C5%91r

[Teisani]

To clarify, in this discussion, I reffer to:
N-quillons as quillons that are bent in the plane parallel to the sword's longitudinal axis.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...4&postcount=66


S-quillons as quillons that are bent in the plane perpendicular to the sword's longitudinal axis.



K-quillons as these, János Kemény and Ferenc Bethlen swords




8-guard



L-guard (normal and reverse)
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...1&d=1679322061
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...1&d=1679327742
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...1&d=1679324305
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...1&d=1679401849

U-guard

[Teisani]

King Rudolf of Hungary grants Tamás Baráthy CoA. 1580 Prague. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/6871

[Teisani]

Ouch! This guy got pierced in the hip with a lance.
King Miksa of Hungary => Ferenc Tury of Nagytúr | renewal of coat of arms 1571. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/6962

[Teisani]

King Rudolf of Hungary. Bratislava 1580. https://adatbazisokonline.mnl.gov.hu...s/adatlap/1222

[Teisani]

Benedek Borsó of Cserneki 1613. Inscription: "16: 13 G. I. M. T. Benedictus Borso de Cernek (manu) p(ro)p(ri)a. Kegyelmed atyafya et baratya minden korr. Genade dir Gott." https://hu.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Fájl...nedek_képe.jpg