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5th March 2023, 03:30 AM | #1 |
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Off on a tangent, a big swing off tangent
Ok, so, off on a BIG tangent I go, and don't be mean now, the parallels are purely visual speculation but hard to ignore visually.
I got thinking about how I see the Datu Hulu iconography, as seen above with the annotations. I thought then to delve in to the the headrest image I shared and its point of origins being Cenderawasih Bay... certainly a Sarimanok to my eyes... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenderawasih_Bay I went down a totally unfounded but very possible relationship in so far as cartography and the iconic Datu hulu goes, and overarching ancient spiritually belief of this magical bird, as represented by ... The PNG land mass which bares a striking resemblance in new maps and old maps of the period... Is there something in this mythologically that we are missing? I've no time today to go further down this rabbit warren in interest... perhaps others can? From a cartographer point of view, is this very object discussed visually... tell me it's not |
5th March 2023, 01:47 PM | #2 | |
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Wow… the cartography angle is totally wild and I SEE it!!! That would be almost nuts as the makers of the blades could hardly have been able to have conceptually known the similarities. What a rabbit hole!!! I love it!! |
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5th March 2023, 02:38 PM | #3 |
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Pareidolia can be very strong, but even so that is eerily similar.
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5th March 2023, 03:03 PM | #4 | |
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Now the circle really round |
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5th March 2023, 06:56 PM | #5 | |
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When looking at this map and it's age and date of "publication" in Manila, is it much of a stretch that they knew of the PNG shape? Records show the Malay raided as far as the west coast of PNG.... this may even explain why Twist core was seen as far as Maluku. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan...or._Y_Capn.jpg As a side note, I had some time to read last night and the head rest I supplied the image of is reputed as being a rooster I can see some likeness but as the same time, some aspects don't line up stylistically to my mind. |
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6th March 2023, 11:16 PM | #6 |
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To be more accurate, the "other rooster" or sarimanok. It is a stylized mythical rooster from the Moro peoples. So the pommel of the mid 1800s and later resemble more the sarimanok head in the minds of many.
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7th March 2023, 02:01 AM | #7 |
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Again I would call attention to the representations that are both common and distinct in this form.
1. The floral pattern on the crown of the “Garuda” form are not found in the other Moro Kris hilts, yet the blades on these archaic seem to have elements that would tie them back to the Moro craftsman. 2. The wings on the side profile of many of the pieces I’ve located are typical of the more common forms. This seems to be a linkage that should not be ignored. 3. The front and back of the form have a possible reference to the gateway to “heaven” or the afterlife. I am personally still draw to a blending of the majority Islamic faith and a mix of Chinese Buddhism or remnant Hindu faith that was still present in the area. But definitely open to thoughts from other members. Last edited by SanibelSwassa; 7th March 2023 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Missing word |
7th March 2023, 02:47 AM | #8 | ||
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At the same time I see a metamorphous in process through various examples, not unlike the various stages other Keris hulu forms are found in other regions. Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 7th March 2023 at 08:46 AM. |
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7th March 2023, 02:59 AM | #9 |
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Another little side track... so many unique things to the regions .. there is this old thread of an interesting pommel and the image Battara provided...
Whilst not purely of the type, it is interesting to note the upright ancestor like position, and that it looks to be gold from the enhanced photo, also carries what appears to be two seperate rings on and below the pommel, rings that appear to have grip straps running either side of the hulu... complete with very interesting side panels too... Datu Piang and a most interesting hulu. Note the shirt he is wearing too... very much akin to the Mirror Panels Gustav brought to the forum some time ago... And this linky...it shows more of the type.... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=162113 Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 7th March 2023 at 08:48 AM. Reason: Adding linky |
10th March 2023, 04:30 AM | #10 | |
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Also the "gates" may have their origins in the vegetable motifs in Islam and earlier. But I do agree that the top one looks like the gate found on some Islamic prayer mats. As for the "wings" I still hold that they are more the stylized "eyes" found on danganan, junggayan, and 17c kris pommels. Great carvings and good to have them with twist cores. |
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10th March 2023, 04:58 AM | #11 | |
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https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/449537 |
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garuda kris |
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