Use of Actual Vintage Arms as Props in Early Films

[Jerseyman]

The first time I worked with the Royal Shakespeare Company the armourer brought down a load of 'cutlasses' for me to choose from. I was completely astonished to realise that instead of being theatrical weapons around half of them were cut down French military sabres with St. Etienne inscriptions from the 1870s on their spines.

One of the older drama schools at which I have worked has a handful of British sabres and basket hilts with badly notched blades. Even a mortuary sword which has been very poorly treated considering its age and value. These of course would have been donated in the early 20C and used for Shakespeare productions at the time, with no knowledge of their intrinsic value or history.

In 19C Britain it was very common for people to donate both exotic weapons and British military weapons for local theatre productions, many of which were later consolidated by the formation of the big props-hire houses which bought up props and costumes from regional theatres. Most of those weapons have since been weeded out by people who knew what they were looking at, and have found there way into private collections.

That said, when it comes to firearms the large weapons-hire companies very often use deactivated weapons. I once worked on a show where the hired firearms were all deac AK47s.

At a London arms fair in the late '90s I was chatting to a dealer who worked for a theatrical armourer in the '60s, who described missing out on an odachi being sold out of stock by the company. He said it was about 2.5 metres long and had been painted entirely gold. It had been bought by the company from the D'Oyly Carte Opera Company who had purchased it in the 1880s along with a multitude of other props for the very first production of The Mikado. According to him, the person who beat him to it sent it to Japan to be cleaned and assessed, and apparently it turned out to be a 15C temple sword (? not my area of knowledge) by a famous sword smith, and consequently worth an absolute fortune. Thirty years later he was still kicking himself!

If you're interested in the fighting aspects of the golden age of Hollywood you could check out these books.

Swordsmen of the Screen: from Douglas Fairbanks to Michael York
Richards, J (1977)

Cads and Cavaliers: The Film Adventurers
Thomas, T (1973)

Apart from my interest in a broad range of ethnographic weapons I also collect theatrical weaponry. The irony for me is that these pieces are very often mistaken for real antique weapons and consequently command commensurate prices, and trying to persuade dealers otherwise is very much a losing battle!

[Jim McDougall]

This is an absolutely outstanding description of exactly the circumstances I was looking for! THANK YOU SO MUCH! Brilliant!

We often wonder how when so many weapons obviously were produced, many hundreds of thousands, yet many are hard to find, some even deemed 'rare'.
The anecdote on that Japanese sword is quintessant, for these 'diamonds in the rough' found in incredibly austere situations.

I think of the case for the well known Bannerman's island with literally tons of hoarded surplus weapons of every kind. A friend who had worked at movie studios spoke of tons of old weapons into land fills...old gun barrels used as rebar in concrete installations.

Those are excellent books, thank you! and I do have the one by Richards. I did take fencing about a zillion years ago and much of it included 'stage combat' which was quite elaborate compared to actual fencing.

[werecow]

I watched Hight Road to China (1983) the other day and was pleasantly surprised to see that the Afghan's were using actual khyber knives. It was a bit hard to screencap so this was the best shot I could get.

I also once bought a Sikin Panjang and a Co Jang in poor state mostly as fixer uppers (I can use a bit of practice). The lady who sold them told me they had been used in a theater production (unfortunately I never got the name) and that is how they got so banged up. They're sharp, original weapons, and the sikin panjang in particular looks to have been smashed into stuff hard and a lot (it's buckling and bent in multiple places and there is a crack in the blade and some delaminations, and the grip has split), so those actors were dedicated!

Still haven't gotten around to cleaning them and fixing that split grip. If anyone has advice on the repairs (e.g. how to stabilize that blister or what glue works well on horn grips) I am always grateful for your input.

[Rick]

Splits in the handles of older Sikkins seem almost ubiquitous.

[Jim McDougall]

Werecow that is great! "High Road to China" was another favorite movie!
Good catch noticing those Khyber knives. That movie was based on a novel by the same name, by Australian writer Jon Cleary. It is not noted , but it seems clear that the basis for the book was the adventurer Richard Halliburton, who flew in a round the globe expedition in a Stearman biplane. In Persia, he met a German aviatrix and they combined itineraries. The concept of an aviation adventure to exotic places with a pair of biplanes as the case with these flyers seems to be the same setting.
In the movie, the costuming seemed well researched.

In his book, "Seven League Boots" which I read before seeing the movie he visited Georgia in the Caucusus, where he met the Khevsur people.
The pictures in the book were the first I had ever heard of these people, and years later got one of these swords.

The photo is of Halliburton wearing the mail these people were still wearing in the 1930s.

Interesting note on the Sikkin swords, and that they were used theatrically, indeed does sound like dedicated actors.

[kronckew]

Jim, there are a number of posts on the forum about the Khevsurli.



My favourite story there is that in WW1 They got finally the word that the Tsar was recruiting men for the war with Germany & Austria-Hungary, so they gathered in their hundreds, Mounted, chain mail on all, shields, lances, swords, etc. and marched to battle.



Only to find the pass out was snowed in and impassible from a set of particularly hard winters. By the time it cleared, the war was over.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Jim, there are a number of posts on the forum about the Khevsurli.



My favourite story there is that in WW1 They got finally the word that the Tsar was recruiting men for the war with Germany & Austria-Hungary, so they gathered in their hundreds, Mounted, chain mail on all, shields, lances, swords, etc. and marched to battle.



Only to find the pass out was snowed in and impassible from a set of particularly hard winters. By the time it cleared, the war was over.

Thanks Wayne, that anecdote was recounted by Halliburton in "Seven League Boots". The thing was that these Khevsur warriors were still wearing mail and dueling with these swords when Halliburton was there. When I found the Khevsur sword I got, the guy thought it was Zaporozhian cossack...I only knew what is was because of the pictures in the book.

Getting back to the main topic,it seems there were numbers of weapons and armor made for plays and such performances before the silver screen days. I am wondering if anyone has seen any specific literature on this apparently very esoteric subject. Jerseyman, do you know of references?
The books you noted on the actors as swordsmen, but nothing on the weapons they used.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by Rick

Splits in the handles of older Sikkins seem almost ubiquitous.

Yeah... The mouth on the pommel end seems almost made to facilitate it.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by werecow

Yeah... The mouth on the pommel end seems almost made to facilitate it.

I use 'Hooflex' on my horn grips.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by kronckew

:) I use 'Hooflex' on my horn grips.

I've used neatsfoot oil on a dried out yataghan grip before, so that makes sense.