Java keris thoughts

SidJ · 22nd January 2023, 11:20 AM

Ganja pic No 2.

SidJ · 22nd January 2023, 11:37 AM

Further pics.

SidJ · 22nd January 2023, 11:50 AM

Further pictures attached

rasdan · 22nd January 2023, 12:08 PM

Thanks Sid. It is a very nice hilt IMHO. If the carvings are symmetric, this is not not something we encounter too often. Most hilts are village quality. I think this one is not.

SidJ · 22nd January 2023, 02:44 PM

Hi Rasdan
Thanks. Ive had a look at some other keris I have and they all have similar symmetrical faces on the hilts. I dont know what to make of this.

rasdan · 22nd January 2023, 11:53 PM

Hi Sid, It depends on the level of symmetry, the flow of the curves and the cleanliness of the carving. The photo you provide does not give that view, but I think it is nice enough to be above average.

Now I don't know what real high level kraton carving should like, this is my impression what is nice. Below are 3 cecekan. 1 is new, common and OK and one is village quality, the one with selut is a nicer one - to my eyes. Of course we need to see the hilt as a whole too, but this is just regarding the cecekan carving.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd January 2023, 09:03 PM

Sid, I think I'd go with a Tuban-Mataram classification, ie, tangguh.

The overall form fits, the pamor fits, the gonjo sort of fits.

When we classify with blades that are not really intended to be classified, it always becomes an opinion based on the balance of indicators, in this case, I think Tuban-Mataram fits pretty OK.

SidJ · 24th January 2023, 09:50 AM

Hi Alan
Forgive me but how does Tuban- Mataram relate to the age estimate of circa 1850? Does this mean pre 1850?
Best
Sid

22nd January 2023, 11:20 AM	#1
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 177	Ganja pic No 2. Attached Images

22nd January 2023, 11:37 AM	#2
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 177	Further hilt pics Further pics. Attached Images

22nd January 2023, 11:50 AM	#3
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 177	Further hilt pics Further pictures attached

22nd January 2023, 11:53 PM	#6
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi Sid, It depends on the level of symmetry, the flow of the curves and the cleanliness of the carving. The photo you provide does not give that view, but I think it is nice enough to be above average. Now I don't know what real high level kraton carving should like, this is my impression what is nice. Below are 3 cecekan. 1 is new, common and OK and one is village quality, the one with selut is a nicer one - to my eyes. Of course we need to see the hilt as a whole too, but this is just regarding the cecekan carving. Attached Images Last edited by rasdan; 23rd January 2023 at 12:09 AM.

22nd January 2023, 12:08 PM	#4
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Thanks Sid. It is a very nice hilt IMHO. If the carvings are symmetric, this is not not something we encounter too often. Most hilts are village quality. I think this one is not.

22nd January 2023, 02:44 PM	#5
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 177	Hi Rasdan Thanks. Ive had a look at some other keris I have and they all have similar symmetrical faces on the hilts. I dont know what to make of this.

23rd January 2023, 09:03 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	Sid, I think I'd go with a Tuban-Mataram classification, ie, tangguh. The overall form fits, the pamor fits, the gonjo sort of fits. When we classify with blades that are not really intended to be classified, it always becomes an opinion based on the balance of indicators, in this case, I think Tuban-Mataram fits pretty OK.

24th January 2023, 09:50 AM	#8
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 177	Hi Alan Forgive me but how does Tuban- Mataram relate to the age estimate of circa 1850? Does this mean pre 1850? Best Sid