Keris Jawa?

[Gustav]

Bungkul is elongated, as is the Mendak, on the old style combinations. The flow of this example is perfect.

[Gustav]

This Mendak has one peculiar detail and is second of the kind I have seen. The first is on a Keris, which with quite high possibility could be made in the same workshop.

[A. G. Maisey]

Below are my comments upon what I believe I can see in these photos. These comments are not to be read as a tangguh type classification, but they do represent some of the things that would come under consideration if I were to handle this keris.

This blade has probably had the gonjo replaced, the curvature of the gonjo is unsuitable for Central Javanese dress, it suggests West Jawa or South Sumatera, more likely South Sumatera, Palembang. The form of the top of the gonjo is compatible with Pajajaran. The pawakan is decidedly South Sumatera. The Palembang gonjo form is usually closer to a Mataram form, but in reality, there is no standard form that can be applied to Palembang.

Overall craftsmanship of this blade appears to be fine.

The gold work on the gonjo has been created by a different hand to the hand that created the gold work on the wilah (body of blade). The motifs used in the gold work are motifs I have not seen in Central Javanese kinatah work.

The hilt & mendak are pretty much stock standard old Ngayogyakarta. I cannot give a wondo for the hilt, the mendak is parijoto in some places, bejen in other places, where I went to school it is parijoto, & of very fine work, it could well be gold as suggested.

It is an older blade, but even in the hand I would hesitate to put an approximate date on it, there are simply not sufficient known indicators to support an opinion.

It is certainly not something from The Land of Jawa, possibly it might come from the Island of Jawa, Sunda, but I think my best guess would be South Sumatera.

[Gustav]

Alan, a question - which is the curvature of Gonjo, that is unsuitable for Central Javanese dress? Because, if you mean the spine of Gonjo, the curvature here is rather moderate. There are early Pakualaman Keris where it is much more pronounced. In fact early Pakualaman perhaps could be one guess for this blade.

The kind of goldwork and its motifs are absolutely untypical for Palembang either.
Goldwork on Gonjo is only partly different from that on the blade - the part below Gandhik belongs to the ensemble on blade, the flat "paint" on sides and spine of Gonjo is an addition. So I don't see any hints of Gonjo being a replacement.

I have not seen any Keris with Kembang Kacang Bungkem outside Java until now.

Of course Mendhak is standard old Yogyakarta, but it has one peculiarity - instead of Meniran there is a flat rim. As I wrote, I am aware of one another Yogyakarta Mendhak with such feature until now, and it comes en ensemble with Keris possibly created in the same workshop. Moreover, the blade has the same kind of goldwork motifs and equally extravagant Ricikan.

[Gustav]

In fact the execution of the single Sogokan here is Javanese, not South Sumatran.
The execution of goldwork is also Javanese. Similar motifs can be found on Javanese Keris from th first half/middle of 19th cent.

[A. G. Maisey]

Gustav, one of the great beauties of keris discussion is that it very frequently comes down to the expression of opinion, and one's opinion is usually formed by experience & tuition.

In spite of my 70 or so years of experience in the field of keris, experience that has involved more than 50 years of being directly involved with keris culture in Jawa & Bali, of 40 odd years of personal instruction from various keris craftsmen & collectors in Jawa & Bali, my personal training & instruction from Empu Suparman Supowijoyo (Alm.) of the Surakarta Karaton Hadiningrat, training that stretched over a 15 year period, in spite of this modest background in the culture, belief systems, and construction of the keris, I have not been able to form a solid, supportable opinion in respect of either the geographic location, nor the precise time period where this keris under discussion originated.

I have said as much in my post #12.

I congratulate you upon your incredible depth of knowledge that has permitted you to form such firm opinions in the absence the advantages that I have had.

You have my most earnest admiration.

I have somewhat similar admiration for one of my grandchildren who a couple of days ago, during a Christmas visit, blessed me by devoting some of his time to explain the intricacies of Quantum Mechanics to me. I did not learn very much from my 6 year old grandson's lecture, I was never much good at math, so I just kept agreeing with him & nodding my head. I'm always easily impressed by understanding that flows from instinctive knowledge, knowledge that has been gained in the absence of adequate time & experience & tuition.

[Gustav]

Alan, please don't be sarcastic.

We all are aware of your excellent pedigree meanwhile.

In your post #12 you said a lot more things, to which I responded.

I wouldn't call my knowledge instinctive.