Katzbalger

[SimonM77]

Hi there!

I saw this picture of a Katzbalger in a Skallagrim video, and I was wondering, if any of you know the source?

I know its a long shot, but just wondering..

Thanks a bazillion!
Simon

[kronckew]

Saw the video on yootoob, he doesn't give ant references for the museum photos of the real weapons. You might try leaving a comment on his katzbalger video asking which museum they come from. (the ones he waves about are repros from Kult of Athena mongst others, but we do not talk about those here.

[Peter Hudson]

https://en.langenscheidt.com/german-...algerei#sense-

Katzbalgerei" English translation

Katzbalgerei f <Katzbalgerei; Katzbalgereien>

scrapping

squabbling, wrangling

The er ending is the sword that does the activity. Katzbalger

Regards,
Peter Hudson.

[Jim McDougall]

There are various explanations for the term 'katzbalger', in which the term 'katz' seems typically of course to refer to cat, and while balger seems to refer to fight in varied senses there seems to be a version tenuously suggesting these swords were worn held by a cats skin (balg=fur).

More likely the term alludes to the 'cat fight', the vicious combat of feral cats, and the ferocity of same with warriors wielding these swords.

With this it is tempting to align the distinctive 'cats head' pommel of the schiavona, the basket hilt fighting swords associated with Croatian (Dalmatian) origins in Italy with the 'cat fight' analogy.

It is often interesting to discover the symbolic associations in weaponry and warrior image in many cultural and ethnic contexts.

The hilt of the katzbalger in the OP here strongly resembles one sold on ebay and only described as 'early Germanic' without further detail. As there are wide variations of these it is often hard to define, but most common is this 'figure eight' guard. This seems to be basis for the development of branches/arms added in other forms of this type sword.

[SimonM77]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

There are various explanations for the term 'katzbalger', in which the term 'katz' seems typically of course to refer to cat, and while balger seems to refer to fight in varied senses there seems to be a version tenuously suggesting these swords were worn held by a cats skin (balg=fur).

More likely the term alludes to the 'cat fight', the vicious combat of feral cats, and the ferocity of same with warriors wielding these swords.

With this it is tempting to align the distinctive 'cats head' pommel of the schiavona, the basket hilt fighting swords associated with Croatian (Dalmatian) origins in Italy with the 'cat fight' analogy.

It is often interesting to discover the symbolic associations in weaponry and warrior image in many cultural and ethnic contexts.

The hilt of the katzbalger in the OP here strongly resembles one sold on ebay and only described as 'early Germanic' without further detail. As there are wide variations of these it is often hard to define, but most common is this 'figure eight' guard. This seems to be basis for the development of branches/arms added in other forms of this type sword.

I also think the "Catfight" translation/analysis is the most logical, the idea of the scabbard being inlaid with, or made of, Cat Skin isnt very likely.

But the other day I was thinking... it could be a double meaning? Maybe like a pun? So it both means something with the scabbard and also "Catfight"?

Dunno!

I just never saw a Katzbalger like that before, but it resembles the Landsknecht Daggers a lot, so it makes sense.

Whats the one on ebay?

[corrado26]

If you ever have seen a real catfight,you saw a very dense and narrow fight of two animals face to face when often parts of their coats are pulled out and fly through the air. This is the way cats fight normally and in German language this is a "Balgerei" - their "Balg" , (their coat) is mostly heavily damaged. This short distance of fight is the reason for the name of a Katzbalger, whose blade is really very short in comparison to other sabres and enables to be used in a very near fight.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by corrado26

If you ever have seen a real catfight,you saw a very dense and narrow fight of two animals face to face when often parts of their coats are pulled out and fly through the air. This is the way cats fight normally and in German language this is a "Balgerei" - their "Balg" , (their coat) is mostly heavily damaged. This short distance of fight is the reason for the name of a Katzbalger, whose blade is really very short in comparison to other sabres and enables to be used in a very near fight.

That is an excellent explanation!!!and very true of course, and a cat fight is also extremely vicious as noted. The close quarters fighting was of course true of the warfare of these times and the melee where there was little room for any sort of sword fighting by method or system was more vicious hacking than anything else.
It is interesting how much descriptive metaphor and image became associated with the landsknechts. For example I have understood that they often wore deliberately tattered clothing which resembled the torn and damaged wear that men had after battle. This in effect suggested the wearer was well seasoned in battle, therefore a formidable foe .

[SimonM77]

Originally Posted by corrado26

If you ever have seen a real catfight,you saw a very dense and narrow fight of two animals face to face when often parts of their coats are pulled out and fly through the air. This is the way cats fight normally and in German language this is a "Balgerei" - their "Balg" , (their coat) is mostly heavily damaged. This short distance of fight is the reason for the name of a Katzbalger, whose blade is really very short in comparison to other sabres and enables to be used in a very near fight.

Makes perfect sense!

Where is that sword from? Must be from a museum, right?

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by SimonM77

Where is that sword from? Must be from a museum, right?

Yes, it is from a museum but I forgot which one, sorry!

[SimonM77]

Originally Posted by corrado26

Yes, it is from a museum but I forgot which one, sorry!

Thats ok Looks like its been shortened, pointy bit sharpened and with a new scabbard.

If I look at the old Danish manuals, a scabbard in the 19th century lasted 7 years on average before it needed to be replaced.

I dont imagine that scabbard were better in the 16th century than in the 18th/19th century.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by SimonM77

Hi there!

I saw this picture of a Katzbalger in a Skallagrim video, and I was wondering, if any of you know the source?

I know its a long shot, but just wondering..

Thanks a bazillion!
Simon

please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...?t=8630&page=2

post #48