![]() |
|
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,087
|
![]()
Hello Peter and thank you for bringing up this topic! I have only recently started to study these clans of the Southwest regions of Scotland. I recently found out through Ancestry.com that I'm 27% Scot and realized it was on my paternal grandmother's side. She was a Young. The Young clan were one of the many family groups of this region that were made up of the Border Reivers. As you probably already read, they were ferocious fighters who attacked other clans and also the English over their border (thus the name!
![]() "To the three, laddie...me, myself, and I! Now go %$#* off!" So they held no allegiances and were prickly around others. As I understand it, they were finally crushed by the king's forces near the end of the 16th century. It would indeed have been interesting, had they survived and remained strong, to see where they might have sided during the Jacobite troubles. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
|
![]()
This is indeed a fascinating and esoteric topic, and as Mark has noted, the fact that their allegiance was primarily to their family or clan likely made them less than reliable for incorporating into regimented ranks. Their well earned reputation as fierce fighters and rugged came with their nature of outlaw character, with the term reiver from Old English, 'reive'=to rob.
Regardless of whether they were ever officially brought into the English order of battle, they were likely involved in degree, and as described, depending on the situation. What I think is important is the influences of the arms and armor used, which seem to consist of interesting assortment of forms from European sources with many apparently associated in the evolution of the famed basket hilt swords of Scotland. These of course were actually evolved in England as well and through these border regions and people. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,069
|
![]()
Both Scots and English kings used them in their local wars, but found them inclined to have their own alliances and motivation in combat. The unification removed their reason for existence and James really hated them, especially the Graham family who he outlawed and banished from the UK. The Steel Bonnets by George MacDonald Frazer is a good reference if you can get hold of it.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Tyneside. North-East England
Posts: 530
|
![]()
I'm a Graham; at least I was until my father married my mother.
Her family finally settled down to farming in Ford/Etal but her father ran off with the circus and became a lion tamer. We were not alone in our infamy: the bloody Armstrongs and Robsons were equally unpleasant... they are still a thorn in my side - having employed both over the years. It has now become fashionable, up here on the borders, to take pride in your Reiver ancestry. The value of such prestige is as debatable as the borderlands; although our Port wines can inspire such confidence. Here's our crest: |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 436
|
![]()
What, who is the hawk, eagle eating?
Never mind. I found an answer https://www.scotsconnection.com/clan_crests/Graham.htm . I did not find out what the stork represented. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Tyneside. North-East England
Posts: 530
|
![]()
It is a falcon killing a stork... don't ask me about the provenance or intention.
If anyone knows - please enlighten us. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,087
|
![]()
To be fair, many of the clans did not get along. There was frequent fighting between families and even in-fighting between members. The Highland clans didn't typically like the Lowlanders, etc. We even see this division when it came to the Rebellion periods. Not all Jacobites were Highlanders and vice versa. I've heard of the two separate groups of Clan Campbell, for instance, one supported the Bonny Prince, while the other King George I. So the Reivers weren't exactly a standout in this area. I think what made them 'infamous' was their ferocity, their refusal to 'take a side' and the fact that they did most certainly shake up the establishment on the English border. During their raids, no one was spared some grief, I imagine!
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Tyneside. North-East England
Posts: 530
|
![]() Quote:
Graham's Port is available in any of our supermarkets and is an acceptable drop; but I visited a shop in Lisbon on several occasions (corner shop on the edge of the city-center close to the river; sadly, I forget its name) that brings the truth of my previous satisfactory experiences into disrepute. This shop, and its owner made me realise just what a truly wonderful product Port can be. I love Lisbon... especially at Christmas in a tuc-tuc after a couple of glasses. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]()
Just browse the Net on "Ne Oblie" selective Graham's Port cast, to better see what i meant
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|