The Knaud

kai · 4th November 2022, 01:51 AM

Hello Gustav,

Thanks for your insightful postings!

Quote:

I would like to make an illustration of that feeling with another keris, the state heirloom of Kutai Kartanagara. The tradition says, it comes from time of Majapahit, it is depicted as drawing in Schmeltz's article from 1890.

It's pretty clear that keris like these would be referred to as Mojo.

As you already inferred, it's obvious that quite a few of these keris buda (and related pieces) are of much later manufacture though.

Thanks for posting the pic - I had not seen any pic of this piece and it's a valuable addition to the artwork in Schmeltz!

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 4th November 2022, 02:41 AM

Thanks for that Kai.

I did a quick search but I could not find where I'd posted it.

As I wrote in my previous post I did not really make a connection when I saw the statue, I was too busy dodging the photo police, it was only much later that I made the connection.

Yes, true that if the conman had made something that stayed true to type The Knaud would probably have been accepted as real, but if you want to sell something for big duit to an art collector, it helps if what you are presenting is a dated one off, and way, way back the internet was not around. I most sincerely doubt that even the smartest shonk could pull off something like The Knaud today.

But they do still pull off some pretty incredible coups. I recently saw evidence of what I would guess was a multi-million dollar bit of shonkery.

How these dogs sleep at night is beyond my understanding.

A. G. Maisey · 10th December 2023, 11:30 AM

I am bringing this thread out of hiding so that I do not need to respond to several private emails, the questions in those emails were all similar, and all from people who are planning a visit to Jawa & Bali.

A reading of this thread will, I believe, be of considerable assistance to those people. It might even help to save them some folding money too.

Montino Bourbon · 10th December 2023, 09:11 PM

it might be out of line, but I’d love to know what you saw recently… That was a multimillion dollar bit of ‘shonkery’.

A. G. Maisey · 10th December 2023, 09:18 PM

Montino, I visit Indonesia regularly, the usual is at least once each year and for two or three months. These days I spend about equal time in Jawa & Bali, and I left the tourist circuit many, many years ago.

I'd like to keep on doing this.

In fact, in the times when I am not in Indonesia I'd like to continue in my present undisturbed lifestyle.

There are some things that are best left unsaid.

Montino Bourbon · 12th December 2023, 03:16 AM

Ustad Ali Akbar Khan said: “ truth is not something to be thrown around, like dung, but must be used sparingly.“ So I understand what you’re saying.

Pendita65 · 13th December 2023, 10:20 PM

Hi there,

i enclosed a picture of the Knaud Keris that i took two weeks ago in the World Museum former Tropen Museum Amsterdam.

I didn't read the book by van Duuren although i went through it quickly in the Museum store.

David van Duuren has been many years the conservator of the Asian department of the Tropen Museum and wrote several books about the Keris and other subjects of Indonesia.

Best wishes, Martin

10th December 2023, 09:11 PM	#4
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	multimillion dollar fake it might be out of line, but I’d love to know what you saw recently… That was a multimillion dollar bit of ‘shonkery’.

12th December 2023, 03:16 AM	#6
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	truth Ustad Ali Akbar Khan said: “ truth is not something to be thrown around, like dung, but must be used sparingly.“ So I understand what you’re saying.

13th December 2023, 10:20 PM	#7
Pendita65 Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 94	Knaud's Keris on display at WereldMuseum Amsterdam Hi there, i enclosed a picture of the Knaud Keris that i took two weeks ago in the World Museum former Tropen Museum Amsterdam. I didn't read the book by van Duuren although i went through it quickly in the Museum store. David van Duuren has been many years the conservator of the Asian department of the Tropen Museum and wrote several books about the Keris and other subjects of Indonesia. Best wishes, Martin Attached Images

4th November 2022, 02:41 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	Thanks for that Kai. I did a quick search but I could not find where I'd posted it. As I wrote in my previous post I did not really make a connection when I saw the statue, I was too busy dodging the photo police, it was only much later that I made the connection. Yes, true that if the conman had made something that stayed true to type The Knaud would probably have been accepted as real, but if you want to sell something for big duit to an art collector, it helps if what you are presenting is a dated one off, and way, way back the internet was not around. I most sincerely doubt that even the smartest shonk could pull off something like The Knaud today. But they do still pull off some pretty incredible coups. I recently saw evidence of what I would guess was a multi-million dollar bit of shonkery. How these dogs sleep at night is beyond my understanding.

10th December 2023, 11:30 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	I am bringing this thread out of hiding so that I do not need to respond to several private emails, the questions in those emails were all similar, and all from people who are planning a visit to Jawa & Bali. A reading of this thread will, I believe, be of considerable assistance to those people. It might even help to save them some folding money too.

10th December 2023, 09:18 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,857	Montino, I visit Indonesia regularly, the usual is at least once each year and for two or three months. These days I spend about equal time in Jawa & Bali, and I left the tourist circuit many, many years ago. I'd like to keep on doing this. In fact, in the times when I am not in Indonesia I'd like to continue in my present undisturbed lifestyle. There are some things that are best left unsaid.