Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th October 2022, 09:37 PM   #61
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Time for a bit of thread necromancy... Surviving written accounts of individual martial deeds in Wallachian history are rare. These are also, fairly unknown, especially to English speaking audiences. Since most of it is written in Romanian, I hope to add a bit of info here, for non-Romanian speakers.

In addition to written accounts, surviving weapons and iconography are also rare as hen’s teeth.

A few notes: by Wallachia, it is implied the medieval state of Wallachia, in historical documents known as “Țara Rumānească” “Ungrovlahia” or “Wallachia Transalpina”. Moldova, although also referred to as “Wallachia” or “Moldo-Vlahia” in certain Polish documents, will be referred to strictly as “Moldova”.

Dregator - Historical Romanian ranks and titles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...nks_and_titles
Jupan - Župan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDupan

Stroe Buzescu’s duel with the Tatar (1602)

The following is probably the best-known duel (there aren't many known ). In October 1601, after the assassination of Wallachian voievod, Michael the Brave (August 1601), the next to be elected voivode was Radu Șerban. However, his reign was initially, not to be a peaceful one, having to fight-off various rivals. One of these was Simion Movilă, brother to the Moldovan voivode, Ieremia Movilă. At first, Simion Movilă, had to retreat to Moldova, not having the troops to maintain the throne. However, he would return during September 1602, with 40,000 Tatars (commanded by Ğazı II Giray - Khan of the Crimean Khanate.), the Moldovans sent by his brother, Ieremia Movilă, and about 300 Cossacks. Radu Şerban's army was much smaller, totalling around 8,000-10,000 infantrymen and 6,000 horsemen, to which were later added 1,000 horsemen sent from Transylvania by the Habsburg general Giorgio Basta. Considering the numerical superiority of the invaders, Radu Şerban adopted a defensive tactic. The decisive battle took place at Teişani, in the valley of the Teleajen river, on September 23 and 24, 1602. All the Tatar attacks against the Wallachian fortified camp with trenches and palisades failed; in the end, after having suffered great losses, the Tatars had to retreat to Silistra. During the battle of Teişani, the son-in-law or grandson (it’s not known for certain, only named Mārza) of the Crimean Khan had a duel with the Wallachian boyar Stroe Buzescu (also held the title of Mare Stolnic). Whether Stroe or the Tatar was the one who made the challenge, I’m not sure. There are quite a few internet articles written in Romanian, that deal with this event. The basic version of events is this...Stroe Buzescu has a duel with the Tatar, and wins by sword thrust (more on that later). Stroe is generally considered to be an old man during this duel, whereas the Tatar is a young, fit and of great stature. A lot of David vs. Goliath vibes going on here. The thing is that Stroe’s birth date isn’t known, so we don’t know his age for sure. He dies from a sword wound on his face sustained in battle with the Tatar. Commonly, it is said be an infection or the enemy’s sword was poisoned (considering he died 5 weeks later, I’d go with infection).

Now for the evidence. As I said, quite a few internet articles are written in Romanian on this duel, however very few cite historical sources. And in my opinion, if something isn’t quoted from a historical source, IT NEVER HAPPENED!. In my opinion, the best free source is “Monumentul funerar īn Țara Romānească – discurs narativ și efigie” by Ioan Albu. The following Romanian texts are exterpts from said work, the English translations are however, my own attempts:

Stroe’s wife, Sima Buzescu, commissioned a funeral stone with the following inscription:

Quote:
„†bBъ čģå ѡ(ть)цa и с(ъи)нa и с҃тaго дѹхa aģčķ †acesta petră pre ghero(pa) jupănului lu Stroe Buzesculǔ ceu fost stolnicǔ la Mihai Vo(evod)dǔ și au fo(st) la toate războaele preaună cu Domnu său ca o slugă creadenciosă Domǔnu(lui) să(u) și la războiu din īntāi dob(ă)ndi ranăt la māna stăngă de turci și la războiulǔ la Giurgiu cā(nd) să loviră cu hanu să răni la ochiul stăngǔ de săgetă și au slujitǔ lu Mihai Vo(evo)dǔ pănă peri īn Țara Ungrească. Deci să sculară boerii țărei cu Buzeștii rădicară prea Radulǔ Vo(evo)d era Simeon Vo(evo)dǔ sea sculă cu tătari, moldoveni și mulți fără să clintească prea Radulǔ Vo(evo)d și prea Buzești din țara lor la țara nemțeascu cu oști(le) lor dice mersă jupănul Stroe la (īm)păratulǔ nemțesc de ceru aju(to)ri de eșiră la Țara Rumănescă cu Radulǔ Vo(evo)d și nu-i așteaptă Simion Vo(evo)dǔ ci se dusă de aducesi și moldoveni și hanulǔ cu ҂Š • ҂K (160000) de tătari și eșiră de să loviră īn gura Telejinului la Teiușani īn luna lu Sătevrie Ä ² • (14) zile anii ҂Ē • Š • ² • (7111 = 1602) luni demin(ea)ț(ă) pă(nă) sara și făcură năvală Marți de trei ori īn tote10 părțile dar jupănul Stroe atăta nevoe pre creștini văzu el stătu īmpotriva tătarilorǔ de să lovi cu comnatulǔ hanului și-lǔ junghie pre tătari și dintracelǔ război să răni la obrazi i preste å (5) septămăni să (īn)tă(m)plă moarte īn luna lu otovrie B (2) zile Dumnezeu să erte”

„vă leat ҂Ē • Š • ² •. Și nu fu pre voe căinilor de tătari”
„Scrisei eu jupuneasca Sima a stol(ni)cului Stroe. Deaca voi muri să mă grupați lāngă dumniia lui aicea.”
Quote:
(Slavonic formulation)
In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, Amin
(Romanian text)
This stone on the grave of župan Stroe Buzesculu, who was Stolnic to Voivode Mihai, and was in all wars besides his Lordship (Domn), as a loyal servant to his Lord (Domnului), and in the first war was wounded on his left hand by the Turks, and in the war at Giurgiu, when colliding with the Khan, he was wounded with an arrow to the left eye, and he served Voivode Mihai, till his death in Țara Ungureasca (Transilvanya). Here the land's boyars rose, with the Buzescu's they rose Voivode Radu, and Voivode Simeon rose with the Tatars, and Moldovans and many came and chased away Radu Voda and the Buzescu's from their land. And the Buzescu's with their troops went to the German Emperor (Rudolf II) to ask for help, and they went out to Țara Rumănescă (Wallachia) with Radu voda, and Simeon Voda did not wait for them, he went and brought moldovans and khan's tatars, and the went out and collided at the mouth of the Telejin river, near Teiusani, in the month of September, 14 days, year 7111(1602), Monday morning till evening, and they stormed 3 times on Tuesday from all sides. But župan Stroe seeing much need of the Christians, stood against the Tatars, and struck blows with the khan's brother-in-law (comnatulu), and stabbed (junghie) the Tatar, and in that war (război) he was wounded on the cheek, and over 5 weeks occurred his death in the month of October, 2 days. May God forgive.

"Year ҂Ē • Š • ² •. And he was not to the will of the Tatar dogs"
"Written by I, župan wife Sima, of stolnic Stroe. If I am to die, burry me next his Lordship here."


In addition to the grave stone, we also have Stroe Buzescu's courage mentioned in a 29 June 1604 chrysobull (hrisov) by Voivode Radu Serban (original in slavonic):

Quote:
„...ne-am așezat cu toate oștile noastre la un loc numit Ogretin (gol in original) ... īntr-o zi de luni, 13 zile ale lunii septembrie. Astfel au venit multă mulțime de oști de-ale lor asupra noastră a tuturora și au năvălit peste noi și au aruncat ei atāt de multe din săgețile lor asupra noastră, īncāt nu se putea vedea fața soarelui de săgețile lor și de atāta bătălie răsunau chedrii și munții de bătălia lor și nu se putea īnțelege unul cu altul. Iar īntru acestea, cinstiții dregători ai domniei mele, mai sus numiți, ei s-au străduit cu slujbă dreaptă și credincioasă și cu vărsare de sānge dinaintea feții domniei mele și a tuturor dregătorilor și boierilor domniei mele și īntru nimic nu și-au pierdut credința, nici dușmanilor noștri n-au īntors spatele, fără īncetare și-au vărsat sāngele lor pentru domnia mea și pentru creștinii țării domniei mele, īncāt putem spune cu adevărat pentru dregătorul domniei mele, răposatul jupan Stroe fost mare stolnic, dacă a văzut el atāta greutate și nevoie asupra capului domniei mele, luptat cu atāt mai mult cu dușmanii domniei mele pentru domnia mea și pentru legea creștinească și pentru patria noastră, ca să ne scoată din māna dușmanilor noștri. Și a fost rănit jupan Stroe fost mare stolnic īn război și apoi a murit īn 2 zile ale lunii Octombrie, Dumnezeu să-i ierte sufletul lui, pentru că s-a străduit pentru domnia mea și pentru legea creștinească.”
Quote:
"...we settled with all our troops at a place called Ogretin (blanc in original) on a Monday, 13th day of September. Thus, there came many of their troops upon us all, and stormed us, and let loose so many arrows upon us, to black-out the Sun, and from such fighting the woods and mountains wrang such that one could not hear another. As such, my lordship's onorable dregators, mentioned previously, endeavored with righteous and faithfull service, and shed blood before my lordship and all my lordship's dregators and boyars, and never loosing their faith, never turned their back to the enemy, ceaselessly sheding their blood for my lordship and for the Christians of my lordships's land, so that we can truly say that for my lordship's dregator, the late župan Stroe, former mare stolnic, who at seeing such great hardship upon my lordship, fought that much more with my lordship's enemies, for my lordship and for the Christian law and for our land, to free us from our enemies' grasp. And župan Stroe, former mare stolnic, was wounded in war and died 2 days into the month of October. May God forgive his soul, for he endeavored for my lordship and for the Christian law."
Stroe was buried at Stănești monastery, in Vālcea county, and fortunately the tombstone also includes a depiction of the duel. The following is a copy of the original that resides at the National Military Museum Bucharest. Although it's not a detailed depiction, there are still some interesting things to be seen:
- Stroe (on the right) is using what seems to be a pallash (paloș in RO, pallos in HU, pałasz in PL), deduced by the straight blade, but also the straight scabbard under his leg. The fact that he used it to thrust, and that the scabbard is under his leg, makes me wonder if it was actually a koncerz/hegyestőr
- The Tatar is seen dropping his sabre, of fairly typical shape (notice the large yelman). Also besides him, are a recurve bow in holster and a quiver with arrows.

Other sources:
https://historia.ro/sectiune/actuali...oe-577794.html
https://wiki.drajna.ro/doku.php?id=b...in_si_stanesti
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Teisani; 13th October 2022 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Text errors
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th October 2022, 03:19 PM   #62
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Here are a few pictures I took at the Muzeul Naţional de Artă al Romāniei:

Sf. Gheorghe & Sf. Dumitru (nice details on the composite bow). Painting atributed to master painter Dobromir, 1526, from the Curtea de Argeș monastery's church.
Attached Images
   
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2022, 06:42 PM   #63
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

More pictures from the same...interesting how nicely detailed the composite bows are depicted. Also interesting is how the swords have 3 fullers at the base, only one extending to the tip. And finally, the scabard chapes all have the same design.
Attached Images
     
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2022, 06:43 PM   #64
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

One more note regarding the Tatar's depiction on Stroe's tombstone, his sabre seems to be similar in shape this sabre in the Livrustkammaren in Stockholm, Sweden. This type of sabre can also be seen mural painting at the Moldovița monastery - „Buna Vestire” church built in 1532, being word by the Ottoman riders in a scene depicting the seige of Constantinopole.
Attached Images
   
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2022, 09:21 PM   #65
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

A few depictions from/about Wallachians/Moldovans in order:

1- Terracotta stove tile depicting a rider akin to polish winged hussar from Tārgoviște, Wallachia, 1640.

2- Eques walachus. Ein reuter aufs der walachi (Diversarum gentium armatura equestris, Rijksmuseum Amsterdam - Abraham de Bruyn 1576)(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-OB-26.984.jpg)

3- Moldovan (called Wallachian in the depiction) envoy sent by voievode Alexandru Lăpușneanu being greeted by Poles of Sigismund II Augustus in July 1567 in Gorodno (today Belarus) from Vera designatio Urbis in Littavia Grodnae : Ware abconterfectung der Stadt Grodnae in der Littaw - published at Nürnberg in 1568. Enscriptions are "Poloni excipiunt Vualachos" "Die Polen entpfangen die Valachiss Bottschafft". Poles on the right, Moldovans on the left. (https://polona.pl/item/vera-designat...MDUxMQ/0/#item)

4- Militis walachia ex vestitus (Omnium pene Europae, Asiae, Aphricae, Americae gentium habitus - Abraham de Bruyn 1581)(https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...ry_people).jpg)

Notice how the rider from [2] and one of the riders from [3] have the same pouncing lion heraldry on the shield. Also, some of the riders from [3] have the same style hats as in [2].
Attached Images
    
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2022, 10:12 PM   #66
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

A few more:

5 - same as [3], taken from "Călători străini despre Ţările Romāne Vol. II". Info from "Buletinul Comisiunii Monumentelor Istorice - 1924 Anul XVII P.P. Panaitescu".

6 - Moldovan ruler, Ieremia Movilă (died July 1606) tomb veil from Sucevița Monastery's Church, Suceava county Romania.

7 - Portrait of Ieremia Movilă.

8 - Son of Moldovan ruler Vasile Lupu, Ioan Lupu - died 1639 (embroidery portrait)
(https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fi%C8%...23FBEC2C19.jpg)

9 - Tombstone of Wallachian ruler, Radu de la Afumati (died 1529)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...la_Afumati.jpg

10 - Tombstone of Wallachian boyar, Albul Golescu (died 1574). Source:Monumentul funerar īn Țara Romāneasc㠖
discurs narativ și efigie -Ioan Albu (https://revistatransilvania.ro/wp-co....Ioan-Albu.pdf)
Attached Images
      
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2022, 12:43 PM   #67
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

One more:

11 - Mihai Viteazul (died 1601) from Georgios Palamedes' rhyming chronicle of the life of Michael the Brave, written in 1607. Very poor quality depiction, but what is discernable is a fairly typical looking sabre.
Attached Images
 
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2022, 11:38 AM   #68
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

A few pictures from the Museum of Oltenia region in Craiova city, Dolj county (Muzeul Olteniei Craiova - history and archeology section). The two last spathas (4th century) were found near Desa village Dolj county.
Attached Images
      
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2022, 12:10 PM   #69
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

A few more:
Attached Images
      
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2022, 06:20 PM   #70
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

A few photos from the "Muzeul Militar Naţional - Regele Ferdinand I" Bucharest.
Attached Images
    

Last edited by Teisani; 26th December 2022 at 06:40 PM.
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2022, 06:51 PM   #71
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

A few more from the same:
Attached Images
    
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2022, 10:22 AM   #72
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Minor observation, while visiting the Golești museum (Muzeul Golești) near Pitești, I noticed this decoration on a stove tile, which is very similar to Albu Golescu's tombstone (died 1574), posted earlier. I doubt that it is from the same period, but still interesting.
Attached Images
 
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2022, 10:44 AM   #73
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

A few more photos from "Muzeul Naţional de Artă al Romāniei". Icons depicting saints with 18th century pallash types, with knuckle guards.
1 - St. Prokopios (18th century) from Bistrita monastery, Valcea county. Nice stitching detail on the scabbard.
2 - St. Michael from Partoş monastery, Banat region (1740). Former Austrian Empire, today Romania.
3 - St. Michael, (18th century), Banat region. Former Austrian Empire, today Romania.
4 - Unknown (St. George?). Probably Transylvanian. Nice longsword with type XV blade and rain-guard?
Attached Images
    
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2022, 10:47 AM   #74
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

One more.
Attached Images
 
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2022, 10:57 AM   #75
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

A very poor-quality photo of Vasile Lupu's tomb shroud. Ruler of Moldova 1634-53.
Attached Images
 
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2022, 10:57 AM   #76
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,184
Default

My Xmas present: A Turkish sword of the early tribal 'Ertugrul' style: The long 'yelman' is sharp.
Attached Images
 
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2022, 11:17 AM   #77
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew View Post
My Xmas present: A Turkish sword of the early tribal 'Ertugrul' style: The long 'yelman' is sharp.
Nice, congratulations! Is it based on any archeological find?
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2022, 04:05 PM   #78
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teisani View Post
Nice, congratulations! Is it based on any archeological find?

I think it was based on one in the Topkapi Museum that had straight quillons, and another that had down curved ones. Mine is a simpler version.
Attached Images
 
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2023, 07:12 PM   #79
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Here's something that bugs me...this horseman looks very similar to the "Eques Walachus" by Abraham de Bruyn 1576 (posted above). I'm really wondering how much de Bruyn's was actually inspired by this.

Universitätsbibliothek Heidelberg, Cod. Pal. germ. 128 Buch von den probierten Künsten — Südwestdeutschland, 1535 Franz Helm, page 72
Heidelberg University Library, Cod. Pal. German 128 Book of the tried arts - Southwest Germany, 1535 Franz Helm

Source: https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/di...ge,info,thumbs
Attached Images
 
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2023, 12:41 AM   #80
Reventlov
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teisani View Post
...this horseman looks very similar to the "Eques Walachus" by Abraham de Bruyn 1576 (posted above). I'm really wondering how much de Bruyn's was actually inspired by this.
I think this particular illustration must have been modeled on a print of Turkish riders by Erhard Schön, made around 1530, and I think I recognize some of the other illustrations as well. Prints like these circulated widely and were often copied or imitated.

I don't recognize the "eques Walachus", but wouldn't be too surprised if it was based on a earlier piece also.

Best,

Mark
Attached Images
 
Reventlov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2023, 09:35 AM   #81
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reventlov View Post
I don't recognize the "eques Walachus", but wouldn't be too surprised if it was based on a earlier piece also.
Thank you very much Reventlov, for this interesting bit of info!

So, let's look at the following:

1) Zwei Türken mit vier Gefangenen - Erhard Schön 1529 http://www.zeno.org/Kunstwerke/B/Sch...ngenen+%5B1%5D
2) Buch von den probierten Künsten - Franz Helm 1535
3) Gorodno (today Belarus) from Vera designatio Urbis in Littavia Grodnae : Ware abconterfectung der Stadt Grodnae in der Littaw 1568.
4) Eques walachus. Ein reuter aufs der walachi - Diversarum gentium armatura equestris Abraham de Bruyn 1576
5) Militis walachia ex vestitus - Omnium pene Europae, Asiae, Aphricae, Americae gentium habitus - Abraham de Bruyn 1581

In addition to these, I would like to add these Mamluks:

6) MAMALVCKE - Three Mamelukes with lances on horseback - Daniel Hopfer 1526-1536 https://www.britishmuseum.org/collec...1845-0809-1342
7) Mammalutus, qui abiurata Christ religione, Turc fectam feguitur - Omnium Poene Gentium Imagines Cologne, Abraham de Bruyn 1577
https://www.meisterdrucke.com/kunstd...e-Gravur).html

Remarks:
- As we can see 1), 2), & 6) are pretty much the same depiction. Difficult to know who was first, 1) or 6). My bet is on 6), but this is just a baseless guess. Also, look at the mistake in 2), the sabre has only the front quillon, probably due to the poor visibility of the rear quillon in 1).
- All, except 5), have large "hussar" shields. Not really remarkable, just a note.
- 5) and 7) are very, very similar, even though one depicts a Wallachian, the other a Mamluk. Both are made by de Bruyn.
- 3) & 4) have the same lion on two legs depicted on the shield. You would think that de Bruyn's is the inspiration, but the other one is older...so that's something to ponder.
- those hats...what's with those hats? Tall, simple design (no borders, decorations etc.), fur hats. All, except 3), have twin long feathers. To be continued...
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Teisani; 8th January 2023 at 11:16 AM.
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2023, 11:46 AM   #82
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

...Continued

Regarding those hats. It could be that those hats are associated with Mamluks, Wallachians/Romanians and Ottomans (from Rumelia) because:

- Wallachian/Romanian shepherds wore (and still do https://revistacititordeproza.files....u-caciula1.jpg) similar hats. They would migrate with their flocs depending on the season, and Germans would learn to associate Wallachians with this style hat. This Moravian Vlach from Brumov, 1787 even has feathers (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A...alach_1787.jpg). Here's a sea of these https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...hoto/524663486 & https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...hoto/525511648. So that much regarding Wallachians.
- Mamluks...well even 7) says: Mammalutus, qui abiurata Christ religione, Turc fectam feguitur = Mamluk, who renounced the religion of Christ, was made a Turk. It seems they associated Mamluks with former Christians (mostly from South-East Europe/Rumelians). Considering that Wallachia Transalpina was an Ottoman vassal at that time (even though not under direct control of the Sultan, it was a vassal), they probably lumped Mamluks, Wallachians/Romanians and Ottomans (from Rumelia most likely) under the same estetic umbrella.
- One more thing... in 1) you can see the two styles of ottomans, one wearing a turban?, the other a simple tall hat. This could mean "a born muslim" Ottoman and a "converted person" or "Ottoman vassal". Not sure, but something to think about.
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2023, 02:48 PM   #83
Reventlov
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teisani View Post
- As we can see 1), 2), & 6) are pretty much the same depiction. Difficult to know who was first, 1) or 6). My bet is on 6), but this is just a baseless guess. Also, look at the mistake in 2), the sabre has only the front quillon, probably due to the poor visibility of the rear quillon in 1).
Daniel Hopfer made a number of engravings (particularly of landsknechts) that were based on prints of Schön and others, sometimes combining figures from different artists into a new composition. So in general, he's unlikely the original artist with this subject matter.

I checked though, and it seems that actually the true original is a print of Mamelukes by Jan Swart van Groningen, made in 1526.

http://warfare.ga/Ottoman/byEuropean...-Solimanvs.htm

Swart's series of prints does differentiate the nationalities: Turks in turbans are labelled Haiden - "pagans".
Attached Images
 
Reventlov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2023, 04:56 PM   #84
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reventlov View Post
I checked though, and it seems that actually the true original is a print of Mamelukes by Jan Swart van Groningen, made in 1526..
Nice find, thank you! One thing that intrigues me is coat of arms on the shields of the Turks and Mamluks of Jan Swart van Groningen and Daniel Hopfer. Any idea what it is? I searched briefly only, but it's upper left corners / lower right is reminiscent of the Serbian cross, itself adapted from the Byzantine tetragrammatic cross (like this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzant...tantinople.svg) maybe it symbolizes orthodox Christians incorporated into the Ottoman Empire? The other two corners have the crescent moon of Islam, I guess.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Teisani; 8th January 2023 at 05:07 PM.
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2023, 02:09 AM   #85
Reventlov
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teisani View Post
One thing that intrigues me is coat of arms on the shields of the Turks and Mamluks of Jan Swart van Groningen and Daniel Hopfer. Any idea what it is?
I can only guess the same as you do. Western artistic depictions can't be taken too literally since the Ottomans were unfamiliar and exotic enemies. Probably there was some general understanding that the Mamluks were slave-soldiers, and the Ottomans recruited from Balkan peoples... so we get this depiction of "Mamelukes" who are more likely Serbians or what have you, or the shield is a generic symbol of the Ottoman union of Muslim/Orthodox lands.
Reventlov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2023, 03:28 PM   #86
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Vlad's Duels

Here's an experience of mine, and a warning to anyone trying to research Vlad III "Țepeș".
It started with my viewing of this video about a year ago (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NA34EZACkWY), where it says that Țepeș fought two duels for the throne of Wallachia. One with Vladislav II, the other with Dan III. I decided to look it up, and started with the Wikipedia article on Vladislav III in Romanian. No mention of a duel. There is one in Wiki English, but no source is provided... so not trust worthy. Even less could be found for Dan III.
The only historical source that I could find was from "Letopisețul Cantacuzinesc - Istoria Țării Rumānești de cānd au descălecat pravoslavnicii creștini" which said:
Quote:
Vădislav-voievod Bătrānul au venit domn cānd au fost cursul anilor de la Adam 6935. Acesta au făcut bisérica domnească den Tārșor. Și au pierit de sabie, īn mijlocul Tārșorului.
Which means "And he (Vladislav) died by the sabre in the middle of Tārșor".

You may be wondering. "Sabre/sabie"? In 1456? Shouldn't it be "sword/spată". But you see, the text was written in the late 1600s, so nothing to write home about. Thus, no word of a duel. Confirmation for this lack of any duels came only recently with this video by Corpus Draculianum group which clearly states that there is no evidence for these duels happening https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i6mtzCJWF5Y
Why do I believe them? Because they are the best source of info on Vlad Țepeș that I have found thus far, and recommend them to anybody interested in this topic.

I can't recommend however the following (anything that uses Florescu and McNally as a source really):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MY82EpsvbQ8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BtCjc5OwBi4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NA34EZACkWY

I can recommend this part 2 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9RoBspQiOiE and the Corpus Draculianum channel (audio is in Romanian, but there are English captions).
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2023, 06:40 PM   #87
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Damn! Found another one of those depictions. This one is from Códice De Trajes, 1547.
http://warfare.ueuo.com/Renaissance/...Trajes-59v.htm

And here's what that hat is "Mamluk red zamṭ hat". So his hat was very much associated with the Mamluks.
http://blog.slow-venice.com/fashion-...demia-gallery/
http://warfare.ga/16/Carpaccio-St_Ge...nites-zamt.htm
https://www.rct.uk/collection/990062...uk-dignitaries
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...the_Louvre.jpg
https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File...giorgio_01.jpg

So the similarity between Wallachian and Mamluk depictions seems to be a coincidence only.
Attached Images
 
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2023, 11:48 PM   #88
Reventlov
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teisani View Post
Damn! Found another one of those depictions. This one is from Códice De Trajes, 1547.
Nice! It is interesting to see how far the image circulated. A consequence of the original being a print that could be mass-produced, not a painting or drawing. In this case the caption Mosquwiter would mean "Muscovites"?! The other groups of horsemen are there too... the "Arabs" have become "Tatars".

http://bdh-rd.bne.es/viewer.vm?id=0000052132&page=1

Searching in connection with this new version I found that according to at least one 16th century Wappenbuch, the coat of arms seen in some of the versions was attributed to Osman I. I am quite sure that this should not be taken literally, but instead symbolizes the transfer of authority from the Byzantines to the Ottomans.

http://www.hubert-herald.nl/ByzantiumArms.htm
Attached Images
 
Reventlov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2023, 08:35 AM   #89
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reventlov View Post
...In this case the caption Mosquwiter would mean "Muscovites"?! The other groups of horsemen are there too... the "Arabs" have become "Tatars".
Nice catch! I missed the Tatar picture. I have on more example that shows how unreliable these old prints can be. More on that later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reventlov View Post
Searching in connection with this new version I found that according to at least one 16th century Wappenbuch, the coat of arms seen in some of the versions was attributed to Osman I. I am quite sure that this should not be taken literally, but instead symbolizes the transfer of authority from the Byzantines to the ...
That's a really nice find! And I agree with your conclusion.
Attached Images
 
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2023, 10:36 AM   #90
Teisani
Member
 
Teisani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Romania
Posts: 314
Default

Here's another example how depictions get reused over time.

1 Bįthory Zsigmond and George I Rįkóczi.

https://ro.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiși...gmond_1596.jpg

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...II_Rakoczy.jpg

2 Michael the Brave and Gheorghe Ștefan

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...i_Viteazul.jpg

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...and_02_311.jpg

========================

Also, another example of that wool hat that Wallachians are depicted with. Portrait of Michael the Brave. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...i_Viteazul.jpg
Teisani is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.