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6th May 2022, 06:29 PM | #1 |
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Hi, my kris also has an indomalay hilt which Rafngard referred to as Jawa Demam. Like you, I'm also trying to research its history in the Bangsamoro timeline. I like how it fits in my hand.
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7th May 2022, 05:23 AM | #2 |
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What a fabulous Kris! So far my research is pointing toward the Northern Coast of Borneo and I am still skeptical as to the Jawa Demam origin for this Kris style. The Hindu and Buddhist influences among the peoples of this area are well documented and date back to the 4th century. My working hypothesis is that the symbolisms and form that date back to these earlier societal beliefs stayed as a part of the culture and mythology and are the bases for the form we see in these more rare Kris. With that said the mythological, Sarimanok is definitely another potential source for this form, but given the area I am finding as the origin for these Kris I am not seeing that as likely. I think discussion on these points iare important. hopefully it leads us closer to understanding the group of smiths from which these blades come.
As a side note it appears there was significant trade in kris blades of high quality between Moro and Malay peoples and that Moro Kris blades became status symbols throughout the sultanate. |
7th May 2022, 03:42 PM | #3 | |
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Quote:
I'm not well-versed in Mindanao and Sulu art, but I can see traces of Moro patterns in our odd hilts. Also, to note- I read that jawa demam has a certain ambiguity when it comes to what's depicted on the pommel- sometimes it's indeed viewed of as garuda; but it can also be viewed as a crouched man carrying a snake. This is interestingly parallel to the prevailing symbols in Mindanao and Sulu- Mindanao, for its sarimanok, and Sulu, for its naga. |
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9th May 2022, 07:49 PM | #4 | |
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9th May 2022, 09:38 PM | #5 |
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I agree with David on all points. And especially regarding the term "bird" hilt, I don't see a bird in the hilts which get described as bird hilt.
Kerner distinguished two basis positions by figural hilts, the squatting figure with crossed arms and the squatting figure with the left arm resting on the knee and the right arm around the knee. See the picture for the first one from his booklet "Keris-Griffe Aus Museen und Privatsammlungen", page 42. And this is also the figure in question, at least I see here a similar figure Kerner shows in the middle row. |
10th May 2022, 12:08 AM | #6 |
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Thanks David and Detlef, I'm totally clueless on keris and it shows. I'm just wondering if there are also keris hilt samples that have some sort of extended metal ferrule before the pommel (like mine does).
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10th May 2022, 12:24 AM | #7 | |
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Short answer: no, at least I never have seen one. Regards, Detlef |
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10th May 2022, 05:38 AM | #8 |
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Certainly not to the extent that your example extends, but many hilts have ferrule like metal attachments like a selut as this Sumatran Putri Malu hilt does.
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10th May 2022, 12:41 PM | #9 |
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I am glad to see this discussion getting some traction!
So let’s start back with the idea of the bird form and then move to the Jawa Demam possibility. In the pictures below I show the possible interpretations of the more traditional Moro hilt designs that are attributed the form of the Philippines native red-vented cockatoo. I want to remind that these are symbolic representations and likely talismanic in nature. Finding similarities in these forms and then looking toward those similarities in the form of what I am calling the Garuda Kris may be helpful in discovering or uncovering to origin of these more rare kris. So in these pictures…(all from my collection 😉 what is the symbolism for the highlighted area?? |
10th May 2022, 05:31 PM | #10 | |
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http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=sarimanok |
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10th May 2022, 12:43 PM | #11 |
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I am glad to see this discussion getting some traction!
So let’s start back with the idea of the bird form and then move to the Jawa Demam possibility. In the pictures below I show the possible interpretations of the more traditional Moro hilt designs that are attributed the form of the Philippines native red-vented cockatoo. I want to remind that these are symbolic representations and likely talismanic in nature. Finding similarities in these forms and then looking toward those similarities in the form of what I am calling the Garuda Kris may be helpful in discovering or uncovering the origin of these more rare kris. So in these pictures…(all from my collection) what is the symbolism for the highlighted?? Last edited by SanibelSwassa; 10th May 2022 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Duplicate |
10th May 2022, 12:51 PM | #12 |
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Now we can look for the same symbolism in the Garuda kris.
I have highlighted the area for observation. To make the correlation to the amorphous bird form you would also need to look to orientation an find a beak and a crest. |
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