Gentle way to improve Pamor (no chemicals)

[Roland_M]

During my experiments and etchperiments in finishing polished blades I randomly found out a way to improve the contrast of old Pamor-steel.
Simply by adding a plenty amount of oil and gently rubbing with white chalc. The stuff from old school.
This will not remove anything and also leave no scratches but it will significantly improve the Pamor after a while.
Picture 1 and 2 shows an old Keris, probably from Java. The blade was in awful condition, the pattern was neraly invisible. After two hours of polishing with Ballistol and white chalc, the pattern is clearly visible and totally unexpected, the black color came back a little bit.
The second blade is my personal Keris, so there is no location connected to this Keris, it is a Keris Roland or Keris Saxony, with a nice modern a bit mystical background (this Keris found me!). This blade had heavy corrosion in the highlighted areas, it is still far from being perfect but much better than before and the active rust is stopped, without touching the staining.
I only used the Ballistol in the last picture for that. This type of Ballistol got a strong smell, I cannot quantify the influence of this particular oil to my technique. Watch out, that the blade never becomes dry during the process!

The technique is easy enough for everybody and just a question of time and stamina, no chemicals are required.

Roland

[kronckew]

Ballistol is my go-to oil for blades, firearms, etc. 👍



I'm almost out & will need to buy some more soon. A 500ml. flask lasts quite a long time.

[A. G. Maisey]

Interesting.

What is "white chalc"?

[drdavid]

Possibly 'Chalk'

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you David.

Yes, I'm sure it is old fashioned blackboard chalk.

Chalk used to be made mostly of calcium carbonate held together with other ingredients.

The reason that even old Balinese blades have a smooth surface is that Balinese keris are routinely cleaned with powdered limestone, which is comprised mostly of calcium carbonate.

Calcium carbonate is a very mild abrasive and has a number of applications where it is used to polish away surface stains and dirt.

I do not know what modern chalk is made of but I suspect it might be something other than the old recipe.

Incidentally, Ballistol is a pretty effective polish for silver & brass.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...
Incidentally, Ballistol is a pretty effective polish for silver & brass.

It's a 'universal' food grade 19c oil developed for the German military. It lubricates cleans, polishes, removes powder fouling, copper & lead bore fouling, prevents rust for ages, treats wounds & fungal infections, kills insects in wood, body lice, fleas, etc. & can be stored indefinitely without degrading. Not only that, but it's non-drying, never gets rancid or sticky, and it smells like anise, Is water-soluble looks & tastes like a non-alcoholic Greek Ouzo when it's mixed in water. (It's a great laxative )


And, unlike renaissance wax, it can easily be removed for etching steel.

[milandro]

Originally Posted by kronckew

It's a 'universal' food grade 19c oil developed for the German military. It lubricates cleans, polishes, removes powder fouling, copper & lead bore fouling, prevents rust for ages.........t it's non-drying, never gets rancid or sticky, and it smells like anise, Is water-soluble. .....

I had a look and there are many products under this name, Ballistol is the trade mark but the product in question should be the “ Universalöl “as OP shows.

I’ve never used for my krises but maybe a good idea to try at some stage.

The person whom washes my krises advises to use an oil as clear as possible , non acid, to mix with aromatic oils. The aromatic oil sits at the bottom (and you can see it) and it perfumes the oil on top, at least this is what he has learned from his Baninese “ guru” and his brother who is also a well known kris “ washer” in the NL). The perfume is one of the so many acts of respect (if not worship that wouldn’t be allowed) for the kris performed by many in Indonesia (and in the NL too).

I am interested in some comments above

Water soluble? I am not doubting it , I am just curious and genuinely interested...but how is it possible if this is a oil?

Is this oil, generally speaking, used in Indonesia by anyone?

this is the datasheet

( it appears to evaporate at 20ºç)

https://www.ballistol.com/wp-content...S_TECH_BIO.pdf


OP also says that he uses chalk to clean and remove rust , does he think that this would be somewhere in the region of pumex 2000? ( I’ve never used it myself)

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thank you David.

Yes, I'm sure it is old fashioned blackboard chalk.

Chalk used to be made mostly of calcium carbonate held together with other ingredients.

The reason that even old Balinese blades have a smooth surface is that Balinese keris are routinely cleaned with powdered limestone, which is comprised mostly of calcium carbonate.

Calcium carbonate is a very mild abrasive and has a number of applications where it is used to polish away surface stains and dirt.

I do not know what modern chalk is made of but I suspect it might be something other than the old recipe.

Incidentally, Ballistol is a pretty effective polish for silver & brass.

Apparently white chalk used for boards, etc is made from gypsum (calcium sulfate) and not calcium carbonate.
Regards

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by milandro

...

Water soluble? I am not doubting it , I am just curious and genuinely interested...but how is it possible if this is a oil?
...

Maybe a better word is miscible.

From the Ballistol website:
=============================================

Can you mix Ballistol with water?
Since Ballistol emulsifies with water, mix one part Ballistol and two parts water to make one of the best black powder solvents available.
=============================================


It's called the Ouzo Effect <-Wiki Link


When used on damp steel. the oil penetrates the water, coats the steel and the water lifts off the surface, where it evaporates.

[milandro]

I suppose it will emulsify

[Marcokeris]

I only use Ballistol on my kris. I have been using it for many years and I must say that it is excellent in preventing rust. I put it on the blades a couple of times a year ... sometimes I also put it (but very little) on the wooden sheaths or handles. I also use the Ballistol to clean a little the metal pendoks

[milandro]

( Salve ) Hello Marco, , do you use any scent on your krises?

Balistol seem to smell of aniseed. I don’t know how this wold mix with other more traditional scents.

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, old fashioned, ie, "old school" blackboard chalk was made from calcium carbonate + some other stuff, but modern chalk appears to be made from gypsum.

http://cameo.mfa.org/wiki/Blackboard_chalk

[A. G. Maisey]

Milandro, I have been using a mix of medicinal paraffin @ +/-50% + sandalwood @ +/- 45% + kenongo @ +/- 5% for about 45 years as my keris oil.

I adapted this mix from the most often used mix in Solo, which uses coconut oil instead of medicinal paraffin. For about 10 or 15 years I have sometimes substituted Singer sewing machine oil for the med. paraffin.

These oils mix well, they do not separate.

After oiling I use a thin plastic envelope to wrap the blade, before oiling I often use WD40 and allow it to dry before using the scented oil mix.

I store the complete keris in a cloth bag (singep) and store in a closed space.

I live 25 meters from a salt water lake and my house is exposed to prevailing winds, blades treated as I have advised will stay clean and uncorroded for more than 20 years. Much more than 20 years.

Nobody I know, have known, or heard of uses gun oil --- or any form of Balistol --- on tosan aji in Solo.

[milandro]

Thank you A.G.Maisey!

Singer Oil is what my friend uses and he says indeed that many on Bali use that too.

About the wrapping I am sure it is the best thing to do in a hot and humid climate with salt air.

Yet one never knows , perhaps Balistol is just the western version of the Singer Oil + scent? Having read the fact sheet it seems to be rather harmless albeit completely unknown in Indonesia.

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by milandro

( Salve ) Hello Marco, , do you use any scent on your krises?

Balistol seem to smell of aniseed. I don’t know how this wold mix with other more traditional scents.

Hello Milandro. Usually, but not always, I add some scented essences made for kris (like sandalwood or others) to the ballistol that cover the scent of the ballistol. However even when I use the ballistol alone, I like the smell of it.

[thomas hauschild]

Take care of copper alloys in combination with ballistol. This oil is not 100% neutral. As a „weapon-oil“ it is designed to remove copper and tombak out of gunbarrels by light acid. If you will bring contents of ballistol in a wooden or leather scabbard and there will be any contact with copperalloy, the metal will become green very fast.

Best Thomas

[milandro]

if it oxidizes brass and if its PH is acid then I don’t see how it would not damage iron.

However a search on internet reveals that Ballistol in very mildly basic (not acid) and if anything neutralizes acidity

https://ballistol.com/faqs/

and for using ballistol on Brass, there is a report in German

https://www.ballistol-shop.de/Ballis...ing:_:108.html

so long immersion or contact on copper or brass is not recomended but that is not the case with a kris (generally)


“...What you can't do with Ballistol and brass
Only if you insert brass in a large amount of Ballistol permanently or at least for a very long time in Ballistol will the brass and Ballistol turn green due to the uninterrupted process of dissolving the copper contained in the brass. This is a so-called copper-ammonia complex in low concentration. In high concentration, this complex would be colored blue.
This means that Ballistol should not be stored in oilers or atomizers that contain brass parts, as this is where Ballistol is usually intended to be stored for a long time.
But that also means that Ballistol can be used excellently for all other applications with brass. For example, Ballistol is used to care for knives, even or especially if they contain brass or bronze. Because Ballistol also has the advantage of being food safe and is therefore used in the food processing industry. You can find out more about this in the Ballistol story...."

[Marcokeris]

some more about ballistol here:
http://www.armeriabarbuio.it/prodott...-spray-200-ml/

...from google translator:
for weapons: if sprayed inside and outside the barrel. It is effective against dust, copper and tombac residues. It does not form sticky films. it penetrates even the smallest cracks and is able to dissolve old dirt residues. Spray it on the inside and outside of each weapon after using it and then leave it to act overnight. Before further use, dry with a pipe cleaner.
for hunting: acts as a disinfectant for the dog in case of insect bites and small wounds caused by thorns or sharp weeds and splinters
for cars: polishes and protects bumpers and chrome parts from rust. Great for locked locks and creaking hinges. Prevents door locks from freezing in winter. It is ideal for cleaning the body from encrustations of midges without scratching it.
for leather: it softens and makes all types of dry and cracked leather elastic. It protects it from water and mold, makes it waterproof and luster. Ideal for boots, saddles, bridles and straps.
for the home: it is effective for both locks and door hinges. When sprayed on sewing machines, bicycles and motorcycles, it cleans and protects against rust. On doors and wardrobes it regenerates natural wood and gives a particular shine. Makes pewter surfaces shiny.
for the garden: it is suitable for garden tools, lawn mowers, scissors, hose reel carts, etc.
for industry and crafts: it is suitable for the maintenance of machines and equipment of all types, for workshop tools, precision instruments and scales and also for unscrewing rusty screws. When used on particularly delicate metal surfaces, it neutralizes hand sweat and protects against rust and corrosion.

[milandro]

I found a video which shows a different method to do something similar to OP’s idea using erasers of different hardness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS2emZA8XJw