Shipping Antique Bladed Weapons From Russia?

[DavidFriedman]

Does anyone know of any methods to ship antique bladed weapons from Russia?

I was speaking to a gentleman in Russia who had some antique Katars and swords, and he said it is forbidden to mail antique bladed weapons within and overseas, originating in Russia.

Any advice would be most greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Rick]

I wonder if this also applies to private carriers like DHL, Fedex etc?

[Ren Ren]

Hi David!
I'm afraid I have bad news. Since 2018, Russia has banned the transfer of any weapons by all postal services (including antiques).
In addition, it is very difficult to take any antiques out of Russia. Each item must have an expert opinion, officially certified by the Ministry of Culture, that the item is not of artistic or historical value. Otherwise, you may be charged with smuggling.
Sincerely
Serge

[DavidFriedman]

Wow! That’s pretty intense.
Any thoughts if items were picked up by flying in and taking back via airlines?

[gp]

Originally Posted by DavidFriedman

Wow! That’s pretty intense.
Any thoughts if items were picked up by flying in and taking back via airlines?

being a customs specialist, I would very seriously advise against it as it would be looked upon violating the law intentionally !
One would not do it with Cites material like ivory in any country either....
Or in Italy an antique miniature painting on a plane in your hand luggage or an ancient Greek or Abbassid coin in Turkey...
Even a 100 year qama or bichaq from the Balkans will get you in trouble in Serbia as well...
Has nothing to do with politics, or being harsh or pretty intense but is just the law.

Fedex, TNT, UPS, DHL wouldn't touch it if you don't have the correct docs.

And even in some countries one might meet "challenges" the other way around: I would not ship a Balkan bichaq from the Netherlands to the UK after the Brexit, Canada or the good ol' U S of A as an over eager customs officer might not be convinced the grip/handle is simply made from horn or a cow bone but think its ivory...and I can't disagree with the officer when there is doubt...!

And hence one is caught with one's knickers down... (which is not a pleasant sight you must agree ☺☺☺)


Comming back to Rossia, be it the Tsaristic times, the Soviet Union or present one, you do not want to mess with Batushka...

[Sajen]

It's the same with Indonesia, it's forbidden to ship any blades out from the country and no shipping organization will do it, sadly.

[David]

David, i am afraid GP is absolute right about this. I would also suggest that we not use this forum to discuss in public ways or means by which to skirt international law. So i am afraid we need to stifle any further "any thoughts on how to..." questions and discussion.

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by gp

Comming back to Rossia, be it the Tsaristic times, the Soviet Union or present one, you do not want to mess with Batushka...

You're right, it's better not to do that. Customs payments are the second most important source of revenue for the state budget of the Russian Federation (after taxes on the extraction of minerals)

[DavidFriedman]

Thanks all for your input. No I wasn’t suggesting to skirt the law by flying in to pickup. I meant to mean, are the laws different for someone mailing an item out of Russia, vs picking it up in person.

From the answers, I see that the law is uniform in terms of either mode of shipping/collecting.

I’m wondering if special permission can be granted on a case by case basis by the Dept of Culture in Russia.

So, no, not trying to skirt the law so much. Rather seeing if there are any legal ways of shipping antique swords from Russia.

Such a shame that the laws that protect their culture also prohibit shipment of antiques that are not of Russian significance.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by DavidFriedman

I’m wondering if special permission can be granted on a case by case basis by the Dept of Culture in Russia.
.

That endeavor sounds almost as Sisyphian as dealing with the US Dept. of Ag and the Customs Service on a CITES case... Good luck if you want to try it.

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by DavidFriedman

I’m wondering if special permission can be granted on a case by case basis by the Dept of Culture in Russia.

In theory, you can obtain an export permit.
In practice, I do not know of a single case of legal export of antiques from Russia.
Philip is absolutely right - there is a lot of effort and financial costs, and the result cannot be guaranteed.

[DavidFriedman]

Argggg, oh well. I guess I’ll have to be satisfied with imagining I own the sword I wanted, lol.

Thanks everyone. I’m so surprised after collecting for a while, I just learned of this last week.

[ariel]

You must remember a logo on a tee shirt from “When Harry met Sally”: “ Do not f..k with Mr.Zero”.

[ausjulius]

the issue is not this, but the cold weapons laws that date to communist times.. the customs officers and postal workers know this game well and it is a game they play often. to send an item out is easier than sending it in. sending it out maybe one package of swords could cost you.. well 5000rbles (60-80$ well its falling fast now so the price has changed im sure.. and maybe now can be a huge problem) to ensure if leaves. that is several swords in a package.. but the issue is if the crooks in the post discouver it is an antique item of value .. well they can just seize and steal it. where as a modern made sword they probably will all run smoothly thanks to the little bribe.
but if the antique isn't of great value. it is all smooth with such payment.. but id not risk it on anything of real value.

in russia all "combative" knives.. daggers, swords ect are classed as cold weapons and cant be imported or exported wihtout some headache.
or even legall purchased.
theres some great products in russia but its just a nightmare to buy them.

this is how in effect the economy of russia is strangled due to layer upon layer of corrupt government angency that preys upon you. so even the making of swords is classed in the same way like to make guns.. its madness. you need a licence for the production and each item must be numbered and the record retained, and so forth.. the supplies actuially to many everyday products in russia as it did during communisim.. even simple things and not swords birng the manufacturer a swarm of taxes, fees bribes and such
the russian government is so concerned about the "environment" that factories are beset by armies of "environmental enforcement agents" checkign always that the environment is "pristine" ect.. so you make some plastic product or some house paint or whatever and theyer already on your hump id say cut your losses and avoid such headaches with buying cold weapons form russia unless youve got a foolproof way like a diplomatic bag and a friend in an embassy

i might add inactuial fact in china there is almost the same laws, but the system ther eis so chaotic and informal that generally nobody notices, knows or cares with some items.. but other items are a big nono. nothing is checked when you send things and if its not checked when you get it and not stolen in transit nobody will look at it but in actial fact fixed blade knvies, swords ect are classed as leathal weapons or weapons of war ect in china and are quite highly illegal. this is why you dont see online sellers of tibetian swords or swords from other groups there and why you wont see even in china much info on these. even sending them in chinese post is an additional crime ontop of owning and then selling them. but at various times nobody pays heed of it at other times its a prison sentence.. the dai/thai ethnic groups in china make and sell swords openly. but you wont see them for sale online or in the hands of people outside thier region.. but meanwhile you can buy many junk katanas from longquan now in china on varous selling platfroms.. different rules for different regions and different ethnic groups and different times.. but even with the modern just swords like in longquan sometimes there is a crackdown and these companies are all severly shaken down for cash and online selling at a national level is disrupted. but youll never find a tibetian or husa or bonan ect sword sold online or if you do its at an insane.. totally insane price.. some of these things are 10$-20$ from the hands of the maker.. and the seller might in the chiens emarket sell it for 500$ because the cvhinese population who woudl like to buy it its rare.. and they cant imagine a way how to ever even see one or buy one in a regular market.

i know this isnt much associated to sending items out of russia, but i guess its a similar issue and its why you dont see russian sellers offering their items internationally.
theres afew guys on ebay that can send cold weapons form russia that have connecitons in russian post that will do it for a fee. but apart form that its really hard.

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by ausjulius

...avoid such headaches with buying cold weapons form russia unless youve got a foolproof way like a diplomatic bag and a friend in an embassy

You revealed all the secrets now you better avoid appearing on Russian territory.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

You revealed all the secrets now you better avoid appearing on Russian territory.

้
hehehe my liquidation is imminent!

yes it is a huge problem actuially - truthfully in russia if you collect swords, antique arms and knives the law is against you in every direction.
its a shame because there is a very large and active community of collectors in russia and some have great collecitons and good knowledge about these topics but are cut off form other collectors due to these restrictive or impossiable laws.

[kronckew]

All trade with Russia by Europe and the rest of the western world has now been terminated due to the current invasion of Ukraine by the Russian leadership. Hopefully it will return to whatever normality there can be, after the situation is resolved.

[ariel]

We should live that long…. 100 years?
Ukrainian billionnaire Michael Fridman established Fridman Family Museum in Kharkiv with huge astonishing collection of old weapons. I wonder whether it might survive bombing and impending looting….
Late Vitaly Shlaifer establised a similar museum in Zaporizhya. Same concerns.
Denis Toichkin published 3 highest quality books on Ukrainian weapons with materials from local museums. The fate of those museums and that of the author is unknown and uncertain.
Ukraine had rich military history, from Khazars and Mongols to Cossacks. How much of the artefacts will manage to survive?

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by ariel

We should live that long…. 100 years?

The current Tsar, Vlad, is getting old and will be replaced well before that. Hopefully with a less bellicose one.